Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[p--and--t]

A neighbour had a "Boeing engineering" labeled package at their door yesterday. Maybe you can buy direct
Maybe I should find out what my neighbour does for a living

Just musing, perhaps if AJ had some inside information about the eventual approval date for them flying again , he could pick up the replacement fleet for the current 737's as a job lot for a song.

 

[Flying Fox]

Things not looking good for the 737 Max

Boeing to suspend production of 737 Max from January

Boeing to suspend production of 737 Max from January

Boeing shifted gears as the US Federal Aviation Administration signalled it wouldn't certify the revamped Max this year.

www.smh.com.au

 

[jb747]

Just musing, perhaps if AJ had some inside information about the eventual approval date for them flying again , he could pick up the replacement fleet for the current 737's as a job lot for a song.

I think it's fair to say that going by some of the things he's done in the past, he does not have a functioning crystal ball.

Would the MAX be a bargain at any price? I'm prepared to bet that at least a couple of the world regulators withdraw the grandfathered exemptions, and look at the MAX as a new aircraft. The motivation might not be totally altruistic, but if the aircraft can't be certified in some parts of the world, what will that do for its future prospects.

 

[eastwest101]

I think it's fair to say that going by some of the things he's done in the past, he does not have a functioning crystal ball.

Would the MAX be a bargain at any price? I'm prepared to bet that at least a couple of the world regulators withdraw the grandfathered exemptions, and look at the MAX as a new aircraft. The motivation might not be totally altruistic, but if the aircraft can't be certified in some parts of the world, what will that do for its future prospects.

Indeed - I can imagine some EU/Airbus host countries removing the grandfathering exemptions, and possibly other countries that say might have ongoing trade disputes with the USA also using this as a negotiation tactic. If the grandfathering exemption is removed in some markets by some regulators and treated/certified as a new/different aircraft type then that will affect new and used/resale values of the -NG and -MAX variants of the B737.

 

[jb747]

I don’t think I’d expect that from the EU, though as the US has decided to place tariffs on Airbus, then you never know. China and the Russia were the two I considered possible. It would be an interesting path to take, and it’s not a petulantly applied tariff, but rather could be argued to be a path to greater safety, with the grandfathering having been a mistake. It would destroy the 737‘s worldwide market, possibly affect it’s passenger appeal, and also make operations for many airlines sufficiently difficult that it would make them move to alternatives.

Back in the mid 80s, Boeing gave us the 757 and 767. Two extremely good aircraft, that had long legs, covered a range of passenger loadings, and were on the same endorsement. Now they have a cramped, single aisle, aircraft that is grounded.

 

[Tropic]

Regardless of the facts regarding the safety of the "enhanced" version of the Max when cleared, I suspect regaining public trust in Boeing and the FAA and actually convincing pax to fly will take some work. Once you lose public trust and confidence in the safety of your product (especially in a market that requires a high degree of public trust to continue operating) in this social media connected world its very difficult to regain your social licence.

 

[suze2000]

I'd be overjoyed to see the return of the 767 to our skies. Mind you, the airline bean counters would probably squeeze in more seats per row and ruin it like they did the 789.

 

[oz_mark]

Six weeks to fix it they said....

 

[woodborer]

My recently developed distrust of Boeing knows few limits. As the downstream effects are so huge, I wonder if they're looking for friends in Washington to push the FAA along. Most of their commentary thus far seems to have had that as a goal...putting pressure on the FAA via the media. A total shutdown will lead to lay offs in the myriad suppliers, which will, of course, have political ramifications.

My reading is that the FAA read the riot act to Boeing, and told them to pull it in.

 

[Tropic]

I'd be overjoyed to see the return of the 767 to our skies. Mind you, the airline bean counters would probably squeeze in more seats per row and ruin it like they did the 789.

Same here. I reckon the 767 is the second best boeing boeing built.

 

[Quickstatus]

My reading is that the FAA read the riot act to Boeing, and told them to pull it in.

Thats the public battle. Im sure strings are being pulled in all directions behind the scenes

 

[Scarlett]

CBR clearly planning ahead to the eventual return of the Max variants...
When was VA supposed to be flying them?

 

[juddles]

I still follow this out of general aviation interest. But losing that interest now.

I was one of the first to see the enormity of this whole debacle, predicting a global grounding of the fleet. And all the events that have since transpired have not exactly astounded me.

I share with jb747 the distinct loss of faith in Boeing. In their management and systems and ideology etc etc.

Despite thinking that the lack of new 737's would be so detrimental to global travel needs that a fix would be found, I now see that the world is getting by despite all this fleet being grounded. I foresee 2020 to be a year where all the affected parties get to attempt a return to reality, but this will all fail due to the myriad parties that are in no rush. The 737 max will eventually get "un-grounded" by the USA, but there will be months and years of delays before other equally important parties will grant their blessing.

The 737 Max is the ultimate lemon of aviation. Boeing, in hand with some very big airlines, took things too far. They cut too many corners. This is not about to suddenly be all good. The pain has just begun.

This is an ultimate dog's breakfast.....

 

[Happy Trails]

Boeing Starliner's in trouble too:

The first flight of Boeing’s new passenger spacecraft, the CST-100 Starliner, suffered a major setback this morning, after the vehicle failed to reach the right orbit when it launched to space. No people were on board the test flight. However, the failure calls into question the Starliner’s future and how long it will take for the team to recover from the mishap.

Boeing’s new Starliner spacecraft is in the wrong orbit during first trip to space

Things didn’t go as expected this morning

www.theverge.com

 

[jb747]

The Starliner flight was, after all, a test flight, so I guess something going awry isn't all that surprising. What does amaze me though, is that Boeing have somehow convinced NASA that they don't need to do an in flight abort test....due to the quality of their simulations. Yeh.

SpaceX will be doing their abort test next month, and that should make for an interesting video. I wonder if they'll manage a stage landing after that?

 

[Ktan89]

Just got an email from AA. Looks like they have started rescheduling the Max from April 2020.

AA and Southwest in the same boat while United is going to postpone until June/July.

 

[codash1099]

Just got an email from AA. Looks like they have started rescheduling the Max from April 2020.
View attachment 200954
AA and Southwest in the same boat while United is going to postpone until June/July.

Fortunately, my RTW has me leaving the US well before I'd have to make an awkward decision.

 

[Tropic]

Going to be interesting to see how long it takes for Boeing and carriers to convince the public its now safe to fly. Expecting a massive PR campaign but think the trust deficit may be too large to overcome.

 

[jb747]

I wonder if this is the airlines attempting to add a bit more pressure to the FAA.

 

[Quickstatus]

Muilenberg resigns (or was pushed).