Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[AviatorInsight]

If true the pilots might have thought a manual trim was taking too long - too many rotations to make a difference while they were unstable, then thought electrical would help and turned the motors back on?

When you start going off from what the manual says you become a test pilot. I can assure you I’ve had practice at running manual trim (for clarification in the sim only) and my little arm was working overtime to avert disaster, but...we managed to get it under control. The 737 does require some muscle even in normal flight.

 

[BAM1748]

Below from the FAA web site. That very last point is a worry. The FAA needs a clean out be genuinely held to account. The rubber stamp days must be ended.


Our Mission
Our continuing mission is to provide the safest, most efficient aerospace system in the world.

Our Vision
We strive to reach the next level of safety, efficiency, environmental responsibility and global leadership. We are accountable to the American public and our stakeholders.

Our Values

• Safety is our passion. We work so all air and space travelers arrive safely at their destinations.
• Excellence is our promise. We seek results that embody professionalism, transparency and accountability.
• Integrity is our touchstone. We perform our duties honestly, with moral soundness, and with the highest level of ethics.
• People are our strength. Our success depends on the respect, diversity, collaboration, and commitment of our workforce.
• Innovation is our signature. We foster creativity and vision to provide solutions beyond today's boundaries.

 

[JohnM]

What a lot of cr@p.

As soon as I see “mission”, “vision”, “passion” it’s game over...

Just HR-style BS .

If you have to “proudly” state it, it isn’t in the slightest bit real....

 

[Happy Trails]

What a lot of cr@p.

As soon as I see “mission”, “vision”, “passion” it’s game over...

Just HR-style BS .

If you have to “proudly” state it, it isn’t in the slightest bit real....

Star Trek has a lot to answer for.

 

[Berlin]

What a lot of cr@p.

As soon as I see “mission”, “vision”, “passion” it’s game over...

Just HR-style BS .

If you have to “proudly” state it, it isn’t in the slightest bit real....

Please spare a moment for the poor people who have to CREATE this kind of corporate bullshit for a living

 

[Saab34]

Prelim Report being released right now.

Foreign Object (bird?) hit sensors which gave out false readings is the early commentary.

 

[Berlin]

Pilots did everything to the book but it still didn’t help the doomed plane. Not good news for Boeing, not at all

 

[Berlin]

Prelim Report being released right now.

Foreign Object (bird?) hit sensors which gave out false readings is the early commentary.

What? CNN says exactly the opposite in their live tracker:

“Investigators have not identified any damage to aircraft sensors in relation to crash“

 

[Saab34]

Most certainly appears will be grounded for the medium term.

Doubtful it will take flight with VA this year. Not overly business critical for them as they are just swapping out older frames. Tiger will probably have the Airbus for a lot longer.

 

[Berlin]

Tiger will probably have the Airbus for a lot longer.

Sounds like the safer choice. Especially for an airline like Tiger

 

[jb747]

Pilots did everything to the book but it still didn’t help the doomed plane.

Not if they turned the stab back on. That defeats the procedure.

 

[Berlin]

Not if they turned the stab back on. That defeats the procedure.

Hmmm. Sounded different from the local “investigators”. Political bias there in Ethiopia too?

 

[serfty]

Article re hitting object ...

Doomed Ethiopian Airlines flight 'hit bird or object' during take off

The doomed Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX which crashed shortly after take-off, killing 157 people on board, was struck by a mystery object or bird, according to a leaked report. ...

 

[serfty]

Not if they turned the stab back on. That defeats the procedure.

Strikes me as desperation ...

Maybe that 40 seconds in a SIM when you are expecting something to happens contacts significantly when you are not expecting something and you are looking at the ground approaching fast..

Even if briefed on MCAS.

 

[jb747]

If you are fighting MCAS, and turn off the stab switches, the trim will now be stuck at the position it was when you turned the stab off. If that happens to be too much nose down to allow it to be held by force, you'll really need to be quick with the manual wheel adjustment to get it under control. I guess the thinking might have been to turn the stab back on, trim up (which overrides MCAS) until you had a reasonable setting, and then turn it off again.

So, not panic at all. A plan, which sounds reasonable, but which, for whatever reason, didn't work.

 

[Quickstatus]

If you are fighting MCAS, and turn off the stab switches, the trim will now be stuck at the position it was when you turned the stab off. If that happens to be too much nose down to allow it to be held by force, you'll really need to be quick with the manual wheel adjustment to get it under control. I guess the thinking might have been to turn the stab back on, trim up (which overrides MCAS) until you had a reasonable setting, and then turn it off again.

So, not panic at all. A plan, which sounds reasonable, but which, for whatever reason, didn't work.

I wonder if the loads on the Stabiliser (due to high speed, aircraft transitioning nose down, and opposite elevators) after electric motors are turned off are such that it is impossible to counteract the loads by manually operating the trim wheel with any significantly nose up authority. Only way out turn trim motors on, trim up?

 

[jakeseven7]

Most certainly appears will be grounded for the medium term.

Doubtful it will take flight with VA this year. Not overly business critical for them as they are just swapping out older frames. Tiger will probably have the Airbus for a lot longer.

There is ZERO chance VA will touch these aircraft in 2019.

A real PR pickle for them. And for all operators / impending operators.

 

[eastwest101]

So the question is, for Boeing 737 Max aircraft to be recertified will the manufacturer need to;

1 software fix for MCAS ?
2 retrofit additional angle of attack sensors on all Max/MCAS equipped 737s?
3 Implement both 1 & 2 ?

If it's option 2 or 3 for MAX aircraft only, will they be able to maintain the common type rating for pilots?

I'm sure an original 737 or a NG 737 must have had an angle of attack sensor birdstrike or failure before in almost 4i0 years of service, and if so how did it present to the pilots?

 

[Quickstatus]

AoA data on 737 Ng and older were only displayed, not displayed and connected to flight control surfaces.

4) whatever fix they implement, that fix will have to be analysed by more than one regulator
5) all 737Max8 operators will need to update their SOP to account for the feature, and provide training to pilots.

 

[Saab34]

Are they still making NG’s and can operators convert orders across?