Enough is Enough

[simongr]

I know accidents happen but why is the trolley inherently risky on DJ/VA when it isn't on any other carrier I have been on? Is the trolley too small?

I just don't understand the underlying issue that makes it unacceptable.

 

[KCMil]

I know accidents happen but why is the trolley inherently risky on DJ/VA when it isn't on any other carrier I have been on? Is the trolley too small?

I just don't understand the underlying issue that makes it unacceptable.

The main issue is that on QF and other carriers in J class they use a full sized cart. The galleys on VA do not allow for stowage of a full sized cart so they use half carts. These are inherantly less stable as they have a smaller wheel base compared to having the same height as other carts.

As for the inconsistant IFE, I don't understand why, I know it is an issue that Management are working hard to address with CS's (consistant service that is.) But it is damn frustrating, however I am suprised that some have clearly just sat back and not bothered to ask for it.

 

[JKjnr]

I can confirm another J cart went over very violently on Friday east coast flight (full flight) towards row 3, 4 and 5, smashing a lot of glass and spilling a lot of wine. Crew ashen faced. Pax row 4 (i think) sodden shoes with stinking wine. I felt apologies were weak and only given to 2 or 3 pax, and that the incident was poorly handled. It made a hell of a noise and thud with crashing bedlam. I had no idea this happens on occasions until reading here. And while thread is on topic of J product - I have flown at least 15 flights since intro in J and there is a real decline in staff attitude and service level - not just in the cabin i think. Still some great episodes of how it should be - but that is just it - they are episodes and not the norm.

 

[xtoss]

I know what you mean, but it was one of those things where I waited a bit for them to bring it out and before I knew it I had dinner being brought and then just gave up on it.

 

[KCMil]

I can confirm another J cart went over very violently on Friday east coast flight (full flight) towards row 3, 4 and 5, smashing a lot of glass and spilling a lot of wine. Crew ashen faced. Pax row 4 (i think) sodden shoes with stinking wine. I felt apologies were weak and only given to 2 or 3 pax, and that the incident was poorly handled. It made a hell of a noise and thud with crashing bedlam. I had no idea this happens on occasions until reading here. And while thread is on topic of J product - I have flown at least 15 flights since intro in J and there is a real decline in staff attitude and service level - not just in the cabin i think. Still some great episodes of how it should be - but that is just it - they are episodes and not the norm.

I really hope you are feeding the specifics back so that those crew who aren't giving the right service can be tracked and "moved on".

 

[N860CR]

I've found a deterioration in the staff attitude in the last few months. I've been flying DJ J about once a week in the triangle and I initially liked it as the staff were enthusiastic and friendly, but the last few flights have been average to say the least.

The food/drinks options were always well below QF standard, and it seems now the service is too. Can't see any reason to continue supporting it to be honest.

 

[maninblack]

The main issue is that on QF and other carriers in J class they use a full sized cart. The galleys on VA do not allow for stowage of a full sized cart so they use half carts.

I don't think that's the main issue. I think that the main issue is Qantas has a long long tradition of training and a service culture whereas Virgin has none of this and the staff come over as severely lacking any service culture, training or knowledge in many cases. QF Business 'feels' so professional when compared to VA.

 

[KCMil]

The training is there, it's whether people choose to apply what they know. Service culture was what won VA so many awards. I think that it's that lack of ability to apply a higher standard of J class service that is lacking. I agree with other posts, the inconsistant standard of service is no longer acceptable nearly 12 months into J class. I now expect a much higher standard than I am seeing, they've had time to get it right. It seems that at present there is another round of training happening for their CS's in J class. But, it would seem that this piece-meal approach to the training of crew is not working!
I now make sure I feedback my experiences on board as often as possible to highlight the CS's that should move on or the ones that are doing an outstanding job.

 

[lovestotravel]

Training is not there as there as simply too many crews who lack it

Awards are not worth the paper/email they are printed on

12 months + down the track and they have carts falling over and still can't get it right

 

[hummel]

You're really not a van of VA are you?

 

[lovestotravel]

Not really, but is anything I said not accurate ?

 

[simongr]

There were a lot of comments defending VA/DJ new J early on on the basis that they were new to it and that QF had xx years experience so it wasn't a fair comparison. I never accepted that view - if you are going to sell a product then be able to deliver it (note I often criticise QF for exactly this so no bias here). But if you do ascribe that view when is the cut off - just by when should we expect DJ/VA to not be able to use the excuse that it is new?

 

[lovestotravel]

Impossible answer to give in terms of how long VA should have to "get it right"

Those that have a vested interest will defend VA until the cows come home

For me, and I have no vested interest in either company except which suits my needs and for that it's Qantas I don't see VA getting it right for many years. A sticking point for me is IFE... Virgin said this time last year that by mid 2012 it would test and then quickly implement WiFi streaming (which is a poor solution anyway) Now it's December (nearly) and the trail is about to commence... Last comments were that by the end of 2013 a chunk of the fleet would have it.. So it's still over a year away....

I gave them 9 months and that's long enough!

No doubt I will fly Virgin here and there in 2013 but so far I am well over 20 flights booked on QF and 0 on VA

 

[xtoss]

I'm in a situation where I have re-qualified for platinum again. If I didn't have this I would definitely be going straight to qantas. As it is, I feel that I will just pick whatever has the best price over the next year or so until my benefits decrease and then move over unless I notice a change.

As small a thing as it is, no life time status is a bummer for me

 

[medhead]

In the 41 DJ flights I've taken so far in 2012, I have never seen the J trolley fall over. If it was a big issue I would have expected to see it at least once.

I fail to see how the trolley size can create a lower service standard. Is it a dykwia thing? But I've probably already said that.

Not really, but is anything I said not accurate ?

Yes, compared to my experiences.

For example, no IFE does not equal inconsistent service. Most of the complaints in this thread seem to be about lack of provision of hard product not inconsistency.

 

[austgap]

I tend to agree with the OP, the hit and miss mentality with the crew and the J product especially the pathetic snack which is served even on the MEL/TSV-BNE route is becoming more obvious the more I seem to travel. I also felt a sizable difference of the attitude given to me when I used one of my upgrade certs vs paid J (which was only during their J happy hour sale). Other than one trip in the last 10 where the CS was ex-Ansett I found most play the hide-and-seek game at any opportunity.

 

[yohy?!]

just sounds like bad luck tbh, there's really nothing that can be attributed to DJ systems or processes in this case (as much as some might want them to!).

case in point, i flew back to HK from MNL with CX earlier this year seated in F on the 747 - the cabin crew did the meal service BY TRAY along with drinks ......unfortunately the pilot chose that moment to sharply climb so I wore the drink and and had to grab the tray to stop from also wearing the steak!

all down to the glamour and adventure of air travel!

 

[tuapekastar]

For me, DJ J started out brilliantly, and has more recently started to falter. Not a big sample size but as follows:

Feb 2012 MEL-SYD-PER-SYD-MEL. All 4 flights excellent, 738s on the shorter flights, 332s on the longer ones. Crew enthusiastic, like they enjoyed being there. Food and service excellent (J cabin lightly loaded - maybe 5 or 6 pax)

Jun 2012 MEL-PER-MEL - as per above, and also lightly loaded J - maybe 6 or 7 pax

Aug 2012 MEL-ADL-MEL - a few chinks, and when I had an empty wine glass the FA was within touching distance but chatting to a couple. Nothing wrong with that, but I just thought I'd wait and see if he would pause his conversation to check how I was going. He did not (note I wasn't really fussed about a glass of wine - just curious as to the proactiveness, or otherwise, of the FA).

Sep 2012 MEL-PER-MEL - 332 outbound, subbed to a 738 :shock: inbound The 332 was more heavily loaded in J this time (maybe 15 or 16 pax) and the crew seemed flustered and disorganised and made a series of small 'errors/omissions'. The food was to die from (NOT for). On the 738 it was musical chairs for a while before I got settled, otherwise relatively uneventful and good enough service.

I've had plenty of satisfactory flights in Y as well, but in J they seem to heading South rather than getting better - hopefully what I got was a couple of aberrations. I'm just happy with 'satisfactory' service. Anything above and beyond is nice, and I'll happily take it, but not really required to keep me a happy camper.

PS. Also a MEL-OOL in J in June which was fine.

 

[maninblack]

For example, no IFE does not equal inconsistent service. Must of the complaints in this thread seem to be about lack of provision of hard product not inconsistency.

I agree. The service is consistently poor.

 

[medhead]

I agree. The service is consistently poor.

So not inconsistent, then.

As for the quality, I guess I fly with a different virgin Australia to most in this thread. IMO it is consistently what they say they'll provide.


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