Emirates - Disaster

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NM

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Re: Passport!

Kiwi Flyer said:
Umm in most places you cant get 2 passports.
There are some circumstances where a country will issue two passports, but they are rare and require the right justification. I know a few people who have had the need for two passorts and had them issued. But without the right jusification, its not gonna happen in Australia.
 

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Depending on the circumstances you can generally get two passports if:

You travel a lot and find that you can’t get visa’s because the consulate needs your passport to issue and you need your passport to go somewhere else.

You travel to places like the middle-east where using the same passport to enter say Iran using a passport with lots of Israeli entry stamps can lead to unpleasant questions

I have had two (Kiwi) passports for a while now.

In any case I would NEVER surrender my passport (technically its not mine to surrender-it belongs to the NZ government). This has lead to some confrontations but I have always found that if I stand my ground they will find another way around the problem

Incidentally this thread gels with some other feedback I have had about Emirates. It seems to be that if everything runs according to plan the staff are very helpful but when things turn to custard they go to pieces and can’t think for themselves (if anyone has done business in the Middle-East you will find that this is true of all large Middle-Eastern business).
 

emanresU

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Good Morning Everyone.
Not having done alot of Int. travel, I am a little curious and concerned about the practice of taking passports.
I would be very hesitant to do so.
Why is it done?

I'm ammused by the irony of the Emerates Link below.
 

NM

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I epxect the reason the airline representative asked for the passenger's passports was to complete the process of making accommodation arrangements. In many countries, the accommodation provider needs to have details of the customer's passport, somtimes including a photocopy of the photo page.

I would be asking why they want it, where they will take it, and when I am going to get it back.
 

Kiwi Flyer

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In this particular case it could (I speculate) also be to expedite immigration formalities. Since some pax may not be eligible for visa free entry (normally) the airline makes arrangement with immigration for quick visa free entry for all but is bonded to ensure they all leave as soon as practical. The airline holding passports is its way to minimise their risk.
 

Gazza

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Sod that!!!

Even if their English is excellent (questionable in Thailand) who’s to say that once they have your passport their supervisor won’t say “oh for this situation we need to keep the passport”.

I hold on to the passport at all times. If they want to make a copy I will go with them.

When you travel, your passport is your most valuable possession.
 

justinbrett

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Re: Passport!

Kiwi Flyer said:
coughaloon said:
Nasty trip! I was about to look at Emirates as a travel provider this wil make me look more closely!
On the passport issue NEVER surender your passport unless it is to a Immigration Officer (when you have little choice) ALWAYS carry a photocopy of your passport (and when in-country lock the original in the safe and only carry the copy) and if at all possible have two passports one with that you use (and surrender if you have to) and the other as clean as possible and hung onto like grim death! Following these rules has kept me out of trouble and got me out of places where otherwise I would have been in the very deep doo-doo!

Umm in most places you cant get 2 passports.

I have two Australian passports - an Official passport and a personal passport.

I never even thought about taking them both overseas. Is it legal to use both? I always thought it was one or the other. Still, I guess, two valid passports are better than none!

Back on the surrender issue, I would not give iti up period. If immigration demanded (on the basis of entry to the country, not doubt in myself or the document) I would get the Australian Ambassador involved. If he said it was OK then I'd do it, cause he'd be the person to talk to if you didn't get it back.
 

beardoc

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I'm a little concerned about the surrender of passports as well. I would be loathe to do this in any conditions at all. What if they lose it? What the hell do you do then?

Does anyone have any information on having to surrender passports in terms of the legality of this?
 
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NM

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beardoc said:
I'm a little concerned about the surrender of passports as well. I would be loathe to do this in any conditions at all. What if they lose it? What the hell do you do then?

Does anyone have any information on having to surrender passports in terms of the legality of this?
As an Australian Passport remains the property of the Australian Government, I am sure you are only required to hand it over to a government official. However, if the airline staff have requested it for the purpose of expediting immigration and/or accommodation services during a flight delay/cancellation, if you refuse to hand over your passport I expect they will happily leave you at the airport to find for yourself. The choice is yours.
 

beardoc

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NM said:
As an Australian Passport remains the property of the Australian Government, I am sure you are only required to hand it over to a government official. However, if the airline staff have requested it for the purpose of expediting immigration and/or accommodation services during a flight delay/cancellation, if you refuse to hand over your passport I expect they will happily leave you at the airport to find for yourself. The choice is yours.

I think that it is very rough for them to compel you to leave your passport with them for them to return later. I would imagine that you could request that you go with your passport and be processed, not losing sight of your passport, and if they refused this and left you in the airport, this would be ridiculous. If it's about bonding people to stay in the country, I'm not sure I'm happy about that at all.
 

Gazza

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I have been asked to give my passport to a number of people including airline staff.

I always refuse.

The only person that I will give my passport to is a representative of the New Zealand Govt or someone holding a gun to my head.

Everyone else has no chance.

Incidentaly the Thai people do not go for "confrontation" so if you stand your ground they will back down.
 

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Re: Passport!

justinbrett said:
I have two Australian passports - an Official passport and a personal passport.

I never even thought about taking them both overseas. Is it legal to use both? I always thought it was one or the other. Still, I guess, two valid passports are better than none!

I'm pretty sure I remember something about one not being allowed to travel on another passport while on official government business...
 

cumaloon

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Passport

I leave NZ on my Kiwi passport, enter the EU on my UK passport (one of 2) and eventually enter Angola on my Angolan Residents Card, I also have a Brazilian ID Card for travelling in and out of Brazil and internally. As far as I understand as long as you enter and leave on the same document you can carry as many as you are entitled to.
The only time I have every surrendered a passport is when I have been required to by an Immigration officer for a good reason (he has friends with guns and I do not) so I really think the holding out on moral grounds has to be on a case by case basis!! I tried the 'my passport is the property of the NZ Government' in Turkey and damn near got to test the veracity on the Midnight Express script! Turks are obviously not of the gentle Thai persuasion. On every occasion I have been in for a long wait not far from it while whatever real or imagined problem was sorted.
 

macca172

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Im like some of you guys, I have two passports, one private and one official. The rules pertaining to the use of official Australian government passports are "very" specific "ONLY TO BE USED ON OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT BUSINESS"!

When I travel overseas on private trips, naturally I travel on my private passport, however my official passport is with me also and vice versa. If for some reason I was to lose or have my private passport confiscated(why I dont know), I would have no hesitation in using my official one to get back to Oz.

Word of caution, when leaving a country on one type of national passport and arriving at another and presenting another type of national passport, can and will raise the suspicions of the arriving countries immigration officers, in most western countries. Why is this so....because they know your coming before you arrive at the destination and what documents you departed on.
 

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macca172 said:
Im like some of you guys, I have two passports, one private and one official. The rules pertaining to the use of official Australian government passports are "very" specific "ONLY TO BE USED ON OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT BUSINESS"!

When I travel overseas on private trips, naturally I travel on my private passport, however my official passport is with me also and vice versa. If for some reason I was to lose or have my private passport confiscated(why I dont know), I would have no hesitation in using my official one to get back to Oz.

Word of caution, when leaving a country on one type of national passport and arriving at another and presenting another type of national passport, can and will raise the suspicions of the arriving countries immigration officers, in most western countries. Why is this so....because they know your coming before you arrive at the destination and what documents you departed on.

Actually that's a good point. If I was stuck overseas in a country with my passport gone, I'm fairly sure the government would encourage you to use your official passport to get home.

The last thing they want is one of their defence personnel at the mercy of a foreign government.
 

beardoc

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I just got this from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, emailed via the http://www.smarttraveller.gov.au site - very impressed that they responded in a matter of hours!

I wrote

I have been reading about an incident on the Australian Frequent Flyer forums where an airline (Emirates) took a person's Australian passport because they were delayed. Details are in the thread at http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/discus/viewtopic.php?t=2049

As my passport is valuable, I would not want to do this if I were in the same situation, and would likely refuse to give it up. However, is there any situation like this where you can be compelled to give up your passport? Should we be getting in contact with the Australian authorities if this was to happen?

I would be interested to know the Australian Government's thoughts on this matter.

This is what I got back:

Thank you for your e-mail enquiring as to the circumstances of handing over your passport to authorities.

In the website article it is not entirely clear as to the reason the airline needed the passenger's passport. It may have been to expedite local immigration requirements as the passengers on that occasion were entering Thailand, overnight, because of the flight delay.

Generally is is not advisable to pass a passport to anyone who will be removing the passport to another place. However when travelling it is the airlines' and the immigration authorities' perogative to examine passports, and sometimes it may be necessary for the airline or immigration official to move to another room to do this.

When travelling as a group it is often the case that the group tour manager holds all passports in order to facilitate immigration and accommodation check-ins. It is up to the passport owner to take notice of where the passport is at all times and to make enquiries when there has been a delay in returning the passport.

While it's not a direct denial that you should ever let your passport out of your hands, it's close enough for me to warrant not letting it go anywhere without following it and keeping it in sight. That's what I'll be requesting. I am not going to surrender my passport under these circumstances except directly to an immigration official.
 

NM

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macca172 said:
Word of caution, when leaving a country on one type of national passport and arriving at another and presenting another type of national passport, can and will raise the suspicions of the arriving countries immigration officers, in most western countries. Why is this so....because they know your coming before you arrive at the destination and what documents you departed on.
Note that if you have dual citizenship and hence have passports from two different countries, it is requirement that you enter and leave Australia using your Australian passport, and for most countries it is a requirement that you enter and leave the country of passport issue using their passport.

So, for example, if you hold an Australian passport and a US passport, you must use the Aussie passport for departing and arriving at Australian Immigration control, and you must use the US passport when arriving into the USA. In such cases it is necessary to ensure the airline has noted the passport on which you will arrive into the destination country (hand over this passport when checking-in for the flight), not the passport on which you are departing that country. The airline check-in process includes noting the passport details so they can be provided to the arrival country for pre-processing (e.g. USA) as well as ensuring the necessary Visa and other entry requirements are met.
 

Kiwi Flyer

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For those who refuse to let go of passport under all circumstances, how do you get on in countries where accommodation providers are required to register your passport with local police? Eg France.

Do you wait to check in until they do them all late at night? (I'm sure the hotel wont take too kindly to checking someone in without at least a copy of the passport.)
 

Gazza

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Run into this issue mainly in Italy (although elsewhere also)

They say that they must keep my passport, I say no

They ask if they can photocopy the first page of my passport I say yes

We all go to the office and make a copy

End of problem
 
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