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Emirates considering the 747-8

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harvyk

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I would love to see it happen, but I'm not going to be holding my breath for it.
 

docjames

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Boeing may be talking to Emirates, but Emirates will only be listening for as long as it takes to screw Airbus into offering a higher gross weight A380 which is what EK really want.

I don't see how with so many 380s on order and 777s on order where the 748s would be usefully deployed by EK, and 777 route upgrades have shown the 380 to be the "right" next size jump for EK.


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TomVexille

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Boeing may be talking to Emirates, but Emirates will only be listening for as long as it takes to screw Airbus into offering a higher gross weight A380 which is what EK really want.

I don't see how with so many 380s on order and 777s on order where the 748s would be usefully deployed by EK, and 777 route upgrades have shown the 380 to be the "right" next size jump for EK.


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That's where my money is.
 

Programme

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Why would any airline order from the 747 family, when the 777 family is available? Oh, wait... Qantas! :p



Slightly more seriously, the 777-9 is only slightly lower in capacity than the 747-8, and is a more fuel efficient twin. The only way EK would end up with 748s will be if the 779 is delayed and they take the 748 as compensation.
 

BAM1748

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An airline like Emirates could buy a small number to show they are prepared to switch form Airbus. Then the next round of purchases will have Airbus doing whatever it takes.
 

The Rok

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A lot would hinge on how cheap Boeing are prepared to off load 747-8's for. The 747 project is well and truly paid for, so it may well just be a simple matter of they are cheaper than a 777 so why not!
 

markis10

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Why would any airline order from the 747 family, when the 777 family is available? Oh, wait... Qantas! :p.
Still a lot of air routes that need 4 engines, if Boeing can prove the seat cost per kilometer is lower.....
 

harvyk

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Why would any airline order from the 747 family, when the 777 family is available? Oh, wait... Qantas! :p
Slightly more seriously, the 777-9 is only slightly lower in capacity than the 747-8, and is a more fuel efficient twin. The only way EK would end up with 748s will be if the 779 is delayed and they take the 748 as compensation.
In a word, ETOPS...

A twin isn't just certified for ETOPS, the operating airline also needs to be certified as well before the airline can fly the twin at further distances from suitable airports. A quad (or a 3 engine) does not have that problem and can be flown on any route it likes from the get go. Furthermore QF is one of the airlines which flies into places twins just can't go.

Still a lot of air routes that need 4 engines, if Boeing can prove the seat cost per kilometer is lower.....
Not many of those routes start or end in DXB however.
 

TomVexille

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In a word, ETOPS...

A twin isn't just certified for ETOPS, the operating airline also needs to be certified as well before the airline can fly the twin at further distances from suitable airports. A quad (or a 3 engine) does not have that problem and can be flown on any route it likes from the get go. Furthermore QF is one of the airlines which flies into places twins just can't go.



Not many of those routes start or end in DXB however.
Boeing does offer ETOPS 330 for the 77W and 77L. CASA doesn't allow it though.
 

harvyk

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Boeing does offer ETOPS 330 for the 77W and 77L. CASA doesn't allow it though.
That's a point, it's not just the manufacturer and the airline which needs to be certified for the higher ETOPS limits, the local air safety agency needs to allow it as well.
 

TomVexille

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That's a point, it's not just the manufacturer and the airline which needs to be certified for the higher ETOPS limits, the local air safety agency needs to allow it as well.
Part of why quads are required on the Southern Ocean routes.
 
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markis10

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But QFF still could have used 777s like VA on routes to USA and replaced the 747's earlier...
AJ blames it on James Strong, and I would be surprised if they have the funds now:

AJ said:
“But the reality is we have the aircraft we have. We just have to get on with life,”
 

Awesom Andy

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I'm not familiar with the performace characteristics of the 748, although I think it's not a secret that the A380 isn't the most efficient plane to fly around for ultra-long distances. You end up burning a lot more fuel for a marginal increase in payload (over, eg, a 77W).
 

samh004

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I know this is EK just bluffing Airbus, but would love to see Qantas turn around and buy some new 748's for their routes. Yes, 777 is great, but as mentioned, wont work for every route they have, and the A380 isn't the answer either.
 

harvyk

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I'm not familiar with the performace characteristics of the 748, although I think it's not a secret that the A380 isn't the most efficient plane to fly around for ultra-long distances. You end up burning a lot more fuel for a marginal increase in payload (over, eg, a 77W).
Don't forget that the quads are as much a status symbol for the airlines as they are a workhorse. There is a reason why most airlines which have a quad in the fleet where the is no intention of retiring the quad (say in the case of AirNZ, who now uses the 77W as the flagship despite still running 747's, although they are been retired in the next few months) has that appear as their flagship / at the top of all literature.

Also don't forget that the airline business is run as much by ego as it is by pure economic measures. It's a business which barely makes a profit and whilst people rarely need anything beyond a Y seat (I'm 6'2 and have problems with my legs and yet still travel long haul Y before you say "but I'm tall") jumbled up in that crazy un-profitable world is a life of luxury beyond an average persons dreams.
 
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