EK521 - B777 Crash landing in DXB

[Quickstatus]

Re: Emirates 777 fire at DXB

Would have been a better story had he bought the ticket following the crash... and wasn't he lucky he didn't put it in his checked baggage!

Ah thats it, many on that flight had a lottery ticket!!

 

[Foreigner]

The preliminary report notes that the pilot attempted to abort landing after the wheels had touched down:

http://gulfnews.com/news/uae/emerge...landing-after-touchdown-gcaa-report-1.1891830

 

[esseeeayeenn]

The preliminary report notes that the pilot attempted to abort landing after the wheels had touched down:

EK521 pilot attempted to abort landing after touchdown: GCAA report | GulfNews.com

Although unlike the article the actual preliminary report doesn't use the word "abort" referring instead to "an attempt to go around".
Isn't the word "abort" only used in reference to cancelling a take off and not a landing?

 

[jb747]

Although unlike the article the actual preliminary report doesn't use the word "abort" referring instead to "an attempt to go around".
Isn't the word "abort" only used in reference to cancelling a take off and not a landing?

That's how pilots use the term. An abort, especially at high speed, is seen as a potentially dangerous manoeuvre. Generally a go around should be much more of a non event. You could go through an entire career without ever doing an abort in anger, but go arounds can come around reasonably often.

In both cases though, the alternative is seen as more dangerous.

A couple of pertinent phrases from the initial report:

At 0837:35, three seconds before impact with the runway, both thrust levers were moved from the idle position to full forward.

One second before impact, both engines started to respond to the thrust levermovement showing an increase in related parameters.

Basically, they did not push the power up! A go around without power won't work very well.

 

[Quickstatus]

Basically, they did not push the power up! A go around without power won't work very well.

isnt the first action in a GA to declare a GA followed very closely by the second action which is to increase power? Something not easily forgotten even in a high cognitive workload situation?

or did impact occur 3 seconds after GA declared?

 

[jb747]

isnt the first action in a GA to declare a GA followed very closely by the second action which is to increase power? Something not easily forgotten even in a high cognitive workload situation?

or did impact occur 3 seconds after GA declared?

It became airborne at 0827:23. The levers were pushed up at 0827:35. Impact at 0827:38.

 

[tgh]

Truly a career defining moment…...

I wonder what kind of mental roadblock may have caused the chain of events and if this piece of the puzzle will ever be published.

 

[Quickstatus]

It became airborne at 0827:23. The levers were pushed up at 0827:35. Impact at 0827:38.

A brain freeze by two pilots?

 

[Flying Fox]

I read that the two pilots involved in the MEL EK incident resigned on the way back to DXB or something similar.

Do we know what if anything has happened to the pilots involved in this incident?

 

[jb747]

I read that the two pilots involved in the MEL EK incident resigned on the way back to DXB or something similar.

The story is that their resignations were supposedly handed to them when the arrived back in Dubai. Safety problem solved. Move on. This is a bit harder, as the pilot was a local. And, not doing the investigation properly could well have ramifications with both the EU and USA. Additionally, Emirates are in pretty dire straits with regard to pilot hiring, and this has the potential to make them even less popular.

 

[jb747]

isnt the first action in a GA to declare a GA followed very closely by the second action which is to increase power? Something not easily forgotten even in a high cognitive workload situation?

Simultaneously push the power to TO/GA, select the appropriate attitude, and call 'go around, flaps..' Every Boeing that I've flown, you push the levers up, and push the TO/GA switch whilst doing so.

You don't push the button, and then stick your hand on the yoke. It doesn't ever need two hands (and if it does, you need some serious gym time). Any time the levers are moving, your hand should be on them. The Boeing pilot in me still sticks his hand on the AB thrust levers when I'm expecting a thrust change...even though they won't move.

If you push the levers up, without pushing the TO/GA button, there is a possibly that the auto thrust could command them back to idle. Another reason to keep your hand there. As I understand the 777 system, in this case the auto thrust was disabled, and would have done nothing (either up or down).

It doesn't require two pilots to have a brain freeze. A s***ty pilot can load the other bloke up so much with trying to watch what he's doing that something will be missed.

 

[moa999]

A shame this preliminary report, which is simply factual, didn't contain a transcript of the coughpit voice recorder.

Be very interesting to hear when TOGA was called, and if there was any communication about retracting the gear.

 

[Quickstatus]

No comment on the timing of the landing gear retraction. Pilots here and elsewhere have commented on the ensuring positive climb before LG retraction.

in this aircraft does pressing the TOGA button /switch alone command a go around with Toga power?

 

[BAM1748]

No comment on the timing of the landing gear retraction. Pilots here and elsewhere have commented on the ensuring positive climb before LG retraction.

in this aircraft does pressing the TOGA button /switch alone command a go around with Toga power?

A reflex perhaps, yep we're going again retract the landing gear while doing three other things.

 

[jb747]

The non flying pilot will call 'positive climb'. The response to that from the other pilot will be 'gear up'. The aircraft got from the ground to 85 ft, so there was a real 'positive climb'.

 

[Craigie]

I wonder what aviation's response would be if a very similar event happened but the passengers didn't make it off the plane and it could be shown that grabbing bags was the largest contributing factor to this loss of life.

It seems to me that it will take this sort of event and the loss of life before anything solid is done to avoid this possible catastrophe.

I don't have the answer but its a little scary to think if i'm in that situation and between me and the exit are the whims of human nature...

 

[moa999]

An obvious solution is locks on the overheads, but that comes with weight/serviceability issues, and also an additional risk of what happens if they lock and then a fire starts in the overheads (eg. Exploding phone during takeoff)

Think education and strong messages by the crew are the simplest solution

 

[jb747]

I wonder what aviation's response would be if a very similar event happened but the passengers didn't make it off the plane and it could be shown that grabbing bags was the largest contributing factor to this loss of life.

It seems to me that it will take this sort of event and the loss of life before anything solid is done to avoid this possible catastrophe.

I don't have the answer but its a little scary to think if i'm in that situation and between me and the exit are the whims of human nature...

Lockable bins isn't really a solution, but I can see it heading that way. We've actually got people on this forum who've argued that taking their bags is ok and doesn't endanger anyone...so I doubt that education will ever work. Worth noting that the explosion was the centre fuel tank...so thank goodness everyone was gone by then.

 

[Altair]

Additionally, Emirates are in pretty dire straits with regard to pilot hiring, and this has the potential to make them even less popular.

No as long as there is sufficient numbers of pilots wanting to step up to the big shiny jet (BSJ syndrome) EK will still have eager pilots wanting to join them. I think what has happened is that the global pilot pool is diminishing due to age, airline strength, reduced military training pilots and cost of private pilot training/qualification being pushed to the pilots themselves rather than the airlines. I know myself when I started my personal training at the end of 2000 the events in the following year made my short to mid term prospects so grim, lots of experienced pilots that suddenly found themselves unemployed, that I stopped and then pivoted my career choice yet again.
However if I had continued I think I would have been tempted to fly with a ME3 airline or CX at least for a while.

 

[Boris spatsky]

No as long as there is sufficient numbers of pilots wanting to step up to the big shiny jet (BSJ syndrome) EK will still have eager pilots wanting to join them. I think what has happened is that the global pilot pool is diminishing due to age, airline strength, reduced military training pilots and cost of private pilot training/qualification being pushed to the pilots themselves rather than the airlines. I know myself when I started my personal training at the end of 2000 the events in the following year made my short to mid term prospects so grim, lots of experienced pilots that suddenly found themselves unemployed, that I stopped and then pivoted my career choice yet again.
However if I had continued I think I would have been tempted to fly with a ME3 airline or CX at least for a while.

CX and EK look like a good deal to young guys and girls working their way up - yes, BSJ to an extent. But once you have kids/family, the pay and conditions can be far better elsewhere. CX is certainly not the place it was in terms of pay from, say, 7 years ago if you join on the current pay scheme. Likewise, the conditions at EK are also not as good as they were a few years ago.