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Earning QFF points / credits on AA

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Soundguy

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I have a couple of questions about how flying on AA relates to earning QFF credits when using a QFF number.

I am looking at booking a couple of 'restricted first class' one way flights on AA (for travel within the US), the fare comes up as a KUP - would this be seen as first class be QF in terms of credits earned?

Secondly, each flight is over 1200 miles according to AA so would each earn 120 QFF credits? Or am I making a mistake here?

Thanks,

Chris
 

Dave Noble

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They have credited as First Class in the past ( based on the booking class ) but QF have been managing to correctly credit upgrades these days and I havent got direct knowledge about how it handles K/YUP fares. Since they are technically in a fare basis of K , you are only entitled to K class status credits ( 30 SCs )

Dave
 

Soundguy

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Thanks Dave,

these fares (KUP) come up when I select 'First class with restrictions' on aa.com so why should they not earn credits as first class? That is what I selected after all. Have you heard of others not recieving First class SC earn on these fares?

The flights are over 1200 miles so this would be 40SC's in full economy and 120 SC's in First class, correct?

Chris
 

Dave Noble

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Soundguy said:
Thanks Dave,

these fares (KUP) come up when I select 'First class with restrictions' on aa.com so why should they not earn credits as first class? That is what I selected after all. Have you heard of others not recieving First class SC earn on these fares?

The flights are over 1200 miles so this would be 40SC's in full economy and 120 SC's in First class, correct?

Chris

From the Terms and Conditions of QFF state that SCs are awarded on the fare paid and not the class travelled. The fare paid is KUP and so the fare paid is a K class fare. The KUP fare is an economy fare with a free upgrade to 1st class ( designed to allow people to work around company restrictions of only buying economy )

K is discount economy for Status credit earning and so is entitled to 20SCs

QF/AA have adjusted their systems such that when upgrades are used on AA, the points credit to QF as the original class. I would not be surprised if they have done the same for this

The only way to be sure of current state is to fly n try

Dave
 

NM

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Dave Noble said:
From the Terms and Conditions of QFF state that SCs are awarded on the fare paid and not the class travelled. The fare paid is KUP and so the fare paid is a K class fare. The KUP fare is an economy fare with a free upgrade to 1st class ( designed to allow people to work around company restrictions of only buying economy )

K is discount economy for Status credit earning and so is entitled to 20SCs

QF/AA have adjusted their systems such that when upgrades are
The fare basis is KUP. But the booking code is A if available, otherwise K. So if A is available, and hence the fare booking code is A, is that not what AA will use to tell QF about the ticket purchased?

So we now have the complexity of terms including:
Fare Paid (KUP)
Booking Code (A)
Cabin Flown (F)

So if QF credit according to the fare purchased, we can see that he purchased a fare basis of KUP that books into A. So I think it could be argued that he purchased an A fare using a fare basis of KUP. By convention, the first letter of the fare basis is generally the booking code. But I don't think this is any more than just convention. Just because the fare basis does not start with A or F does not mean its not a discounted/restricted First Class fare. According to the way the fare is located on the AA web site, I think we can argue that it is a restricted First Class fare, where the restrictions include that it books into A inventory if available, otherwise it books into K.
 

Dave Noble

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NM said:
So if QF credit according to the fare purchased, we can see that he purchased a fare basis of KUP that books into A. So I think it could be argued that he purchased an A fare using a fare basis of KUP. By convention, the first letter of the fare basis is generally the booking code. But I don't think this is any more than just convention.
Actually, it is more than convention, I have read IATA documents that exactly state that the 1st character of the fare basis defines the booking class.

Dave
 

NM

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Dave Noble said:
Actually, it is more than convention, I have read IATA documents that exactly state that the 1st character of the fare basis defines the booking class.

Dave
Except in the case of KUP/YUP it would appear. Then again, these are AA fares, not IATA fares ...
 

Dave Noble

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NM said:
Except in the case of KUP/YUP it would appear. Then again, these are AA fares, not IATA fares ...
True, but my understanding is that AA deliberately markets as an economy fare basis and upgrades to 1st class to help deal with the issue of companies not buying 1st class tickets in the LOTFAP

In an upgrade situation , it is quite normal for the booking class to reflect the upgraded class whilst the fare basis denotes the original class

I know that YUP fares have been crediting as A and so these may well do so , but QF has also tightened up their class to fare basis relationship for upgrades and they may be classing these as upgrades

Dave
 

NM

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Dave Noble said:
True, but my understanding is that AA deliberately markets as an economy fare basis and upgrades to 1st class to help deal with the issue of companies not buying 1st class tickets in the LOTFAP
and very successfully so
Dave Noble said:
In an upgrade situation , it is quite normal for the booking class to reflect the upgraded class whilst the fare basis denotes the original class

I know that YUP fares have been crediting as A and so these may well do so , but QF has also tightened up their class to fare basis relationship for upgrades and they may be classing these as upgrades

Dave
I guess it depends if Qantas see these are economy fares that have been upgraded to First, or as discounted/restricted First fares with an economy-like fare basis.
 

Dave Noble

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NM said:
and very successfully so

I guess it depends if Qantas see these are economy fares that have been upgraded to First, or as discounted/restricted First fares with an economy-like fare basis.
Prezactly my point. They could validly post them as economy for the KUP basis or they could post as A for being 1st class. The best way to know is to do it

Dave
 

straitman

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Dave Noble said:
Prezactly my point. They could validly post them as economy for the KUP basis or they could post as A for being 1st class. The best way to know is to do it

Dave
.....and then let us all know how you get on.
 

aus_flyer

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Does this mean that when travelling on an AONE4, despite some sectors only being available in Business, the "fare paid" is First, thus should credit as A class?

I wish!

Do you think one could challenge on this basis?
 

Kiwi Flyer

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My recent flights (a side ticket to my DONE5) as YUP credited as 4 @ 120 SCs each.

Now if there is no A availability (or none exist for some of the flights due to being 1-class) then you'll only get discount economy SCs.

If you read the fare rules, they make it clear they are economy fares. So yes in my view QFF would be entitled to credit only discount economy SCs and points (or full economy for YUPs but I don't think these are sold by AA anymore). Enjoy the anomaly while it lasts I say.
 

Kiwi Flyer

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odoherty said:
Does this mean that when travelling on an AONE4, despite some sectors only being available in Business, the "fare paid" is First, thus should credit as A class?

I wish!

Do you think one could challenge on this basis?
Nope, no more than you get a refund on awards if paid for class isn't available (or doesn't exist) on all flights.
 

Dave Noble

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odoherty said:
Does this mean that when travelling on an AONE4, despite some sectors only being available in Business, the "fare paid" is First, thus should credit as A class?

I wish!

Do you think one could challenge on this basis?

It is different. The KUP is classed by AA as an economy fare upgraded to a first cabin and so, under QFF terms, the KUP is only entitled to K credit, but from Kiwi's experience, it seems that quite fortunately for SC hunting it is still crediting as 1st ( unlike miles/evip upgrades )

As far as having a 1st class ticket and being stuck in business class, you can claim 1st class miles for sectors in economy/business but there is an issue with the wording in the QFF terms which is unclear and discussions with QFF have been interesting on it, but not resolved when it comes to Status Credits. There is no ambiguity for miles earning since it clearly states that miles are earned on Fare Paid not Class Travelled.

Dave
 

Soundguy

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Dave, if I use Expert Flyer to search for an A class fare on AA in the sector I want it comes up with a YUP fare which it says the booking class is A.

Similarly if I search for First Class (with or without restrictions) on AA it also offers me a YUP or KUP fare as a First Class.

Personally I see this as confirmation that it is regarded as an A class booking for points earning. The simple fact that it costs much more than economy makes the claim it is only 'economy with a free upgrade' rather debatable, and there is no mention of this claim in AA's detailed fare information anyway.
 

Dave Noble

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Soundguy said:
Personally I see this as confirmation that it is regarded as an A class booking for points earning. The simple fact that it costs much more than economy makes the claim it is only 'economy with a free upgrade' rather debatable, and there is no mention of this claim in AA's detailed fare information anyway.
Regardless , the fare basis is KUP and so is a K fare. As far as current practice goes, it does seem that QF is still crediting them as 1st class

Dave
 

NM

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Dave Noble said:
It is different. The KUP is classed by AA as an economy fare upgraded to a first cabin and so, under QFF terms, the KUP is only entitled to K credit, but from Kiwi's experience, it seems that quite fortunately for SC hunting it is still crediting as 1st ( unlike miles/evip upgrades )
I can't find any reference by AA to the KUP/YUP fares being an econpmy fare upgraded to first cabin. The fare rules make no mention of the term upgrade. They just clearly note that the booking code is P (for KUPPMZ, KUPP7MZ etc) or A (for YUPMZ).

The fare rules note:
YUPMZ fare rules said:
IF FIRST CLASS CABIN IS NOT AVAILABLE/ THE PSGR WILL BE ACCOMMODATED IN THE COACH CABIN SUBJECT TO ITS AVAILABILITY OR PSGR MAY ELECT TO STANDBY FOR FIRST CLASS ON ANOTHER FLIGHT
I would have expected that if they really considered it an economy fare that was upgraded based on availability, the rules would say something like: "The passenger will be accommodated in the coach cabin unless there is availability in booking class A/P at the time of booking".
 

Kiwi Flyer

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Soundguy said:
Similarly if I search for First Class (with or without restrictions) on AA it also offers me a YUP or KUP fare as a First Class.
That doesn't mean anything other than AA has programmed their booking engine to search for xUPs when you select First. Booking class is not always the same thing as fare class, and here is one example where they differ.
 

Dave Noble

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NM said:
I can't find any reference by AA to the KUP/YUP fares being an econpmy fare upgraded to first cabin. The fare rules make no mention of the term upgrade. They just clearly note that the booking code is P (for KUPPMZ, KUPP7MZ etc) or A (for YUPMZ).
Well from the AA site "+titleText+" it says

aa.com said:
Fare Basis Code Changes for Selected "First for Coach" Fares
In response to market conditions, YUPP fares in the US48 were converted to KUPP fares on August 9, 2006. These will continue to be booked in P class. Connecting service on single-compartment aircraft, such as American Eagle and AmericanConnection, will be booked in Y class.

YUP fares booked in A class to/from Hawaii were converted to KUP fares and will continue to be booked in A class. Connecting service on single-compartment aircraft, such as American Eagle and AmericanConnection, will be booked in Y class.

No changes were filed for the First-for-Coach fares for ANC or in the US/Canada transborder markets.

In summary, this is a fare basis code revision only. The same booking class codes used previously for the YUPP / YUP fare types will continue to apply.
Seems to me that they view it as First for coach fare

Dave
 
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