Downgraded from Business Class.

[EmilyP]

Yep, it seems their response could be paraphrased as 'too bad, so sad'.

We are talking about a fare refund of just under $3000, instead of the $1250 offered. So really Qantas are happy to shaft loyal customers for the princely sum of approx. $1500.

Strange seeing as I saw Mr Joyce on TV the other night spruiking the $350 million profit they made, also waxing poetic about the new ad campaign that must have cost them mega bucks.

So for around $1500 they have lost the following as customers:

- my parents
- my husband and I
- my brother and sister in law
- my sister
- my aunt and uncle

And this is just our immediate family.

Look, I know at the end of the day Qantas doesn't give a stuff about my parents. But it doesn't seem like good business sense to lose all that potential future income from our family for an extra $1500?

EmilyP

 

[EmilyP]

An incredibly snide act crediting 50,000 points. Annoy somebody that much that you know they will not travel with you again, and give them points that you know they won't convert to travel. Qantas, you are at rock bottom and digging furiously.

Yeah, no way they will use the points. Probably will just buy a fridge or something from the FF store.

 

[Baysider]

Look, I know at the end of the day Qantas doesn't give a stuff about my parents. But it doesn't seem like good business sense to lose all that potential future income from our family for an extra $1500?
EmilyP

Plus all of the readers here who may still book most of the time with QF, but will no doubt consider alternatives more carefully, even for flights that in the past they would have sole-sourced to QF.

 

[EmilyP]

Yeah, no way they will use the points. Probably will just buy a fridge or something from the FF store.

Or an esky, depending on the value of FF points in the future :mrgreen:

 

[amaroo]

and those Mongrels on AFF are stirring things up.

............

 

[opusman]

Look, I know at the end of the day Qantas doesn't give a stuff about my parents. But it doesn't seem like good business sense to lose all that potential future income from our family for an extra $1500?

I suspect it's not just the $1500 for your parents that they were thinking of, but the $1500 for all the other passengers they have shafted in the past and will shaft again in the future. It all adds to the bottom line after all.

 

[EmilyP]

I suspect it's not just the $1500 for your parents that they were thinking of, but the $1500 for all the other passengers they have shafted in the past and will shaft again in the future. It all adds to the bottom line after all.

Very true.

I would have thought Qantas made enough money legitimately, instead of needing to take if off pax unethically.

 

[get me outta here]

This is yet again another response that would make me feel ropeable, as bad as the initial treatment from the LAX staff when they were rude to your parents, turned their back on your parents and then just walked away when you parents were making it clear that the issue was far from unresolved in any acceptable way:

Hi All,

Please find below Qantas' response to my parent's complaint (names and booking numbers removed):

Dear Mr and Mrs xx_

Thank you again for taking the time to discuss your experience with your booking xx_X. As you are aware Alan, Leigh and Lesley have asked me to get back to you directly.

I was extremely disappointed, and quite frankly embarrassed, to hear of the situation that unfolded in LA, and of the way we handled it. We can and should have done much better and I'm very sorry that we didn't. I have followed up with all the people involved in the situation in some detail and we have flagged a number of gaps which we will work to resolve. That, however, doesn’t make up for a flight experience that was ruined for you both.

Having spoken to you both, to say we’re sorry, further to the $700 that was given Mr XX from our Los Angeles airport staff, I arranged as a goodwill gesture a credit of 50,000 points to your membership, as well as a $500 Qantas travel voucher. As you are aware you also received a $1200 downgrade refund from your travel agent .

We have spent considerable time reviewing your issues raised and feel that we have responded appropriately. As such, we are unable to further comment on these matters or offer any additional gestures and trust this confirms our final position on the matter.

I am sorry to hear that you were not satisfied with our goodwill gesture and I apologise again if you feel that Qantas’ service was not of the standard that you expected.

Once again, my sincere apologies.

Best regards,


I would like to reiterate the following:

- The $700 given to my father at LAX was described by LAX staff as a 'downgrade inconvenience compensation' NOT a fare refund. This $700 was given to every passenger that was downgraded, even the ones that chose to fly Business the next day
- the FF points and voucher were given to my father as a goodwill gesture as a result of his complaint over their treatment by QF at LAX.
- the $1250 was the fare refund QF considered 'fair' even though it has left my parents out of pocket


Next steps are to utilise some of the excellent advice and contacts I have received via PM from members here and take action.

I think the Australian public need to know that Qantas can effectively steal money from you. I do consider this theft as they did not provide what my parents paid for.

I have an O/S trip booked with Qantas next year. It will be my last with QF I can assure you. Luckily my workplace gave Qantas the boot earlier this year as their preferred carrier, so I don't have to fly them for work at all.

Feel free to PM me at any time,
Emily P

 

[Quickstatus]

Im sorry this has happened to your parents EmilyP. I hope you do continue to seek justice on this. By all accounts Qantas has been very unfair. All of us who purchase Qantas premium class travel need to be mindful of the risk of downgrades and what will happen with refunds from Qantas
I have started to take screen shots of discount Y fares at the time of booking similar discount J bookings. And looking at other airlines

EmilyP's parents sure did not feel like home when they were downgraded

 

[dajop]

The other perspective (rightly or wrongly) is that compensation in the order of $2800, - has been provided (valuing 50000 points using the Woolies voucher method). If you discount the $500 voucher and 50000 pts effectively as non encashable what is left is $1950. If you added ~1/3 of a discounted Y fare + 2/3 of the fare to JFK, that is about $5500. $2k less than originally paid.

Putting aside the appalling way it was handled, the monetary compensation seems pretty close to the mark, which may well be the QF perspective on this, and why getting any further may be difficult.

 

[opusman]

Unless you want toasters, using the points entails payment of fuel fines (which adds again to the QF bottom line) or entering the upgrade lottery. They could have at least offered a guaranteed Y->J or J->F upgrade on a similar leg in the future.

 

[medhead]

The other perspective (rightly or wrongly) is that compensation in the order of $2800, - has been provided (valuing 50000 points using the Woolies voucher method). If you discount the $500 voucher and 50000 pts effectively as non encashable what is left is $1950. If you added ~1/3 of a discounted Y fare + 2/3 of the fare to JFK, that is about $5500. $2k less than originally paid.

Putting aside the appalling way it was handled, the monetary compensation seems pretty close to the mark, which may well be the QF perspective on this, and why getting any further may be difficult.

As I read it the $700, and $500 and 50000 points were not provided as compensation for the lost fare. Ex gratia payments or some such. Perhaps qantas wouldn't have to hand up such payments if their compensation was set at an appropriate level.

 

[timster]

Next steps are to utilise some of the excellent advice and contacts I have received via PM from members here and take action.

I think the Australian public need to know that Qantas can effectively steal money from you. I do consider this theft as they did not provide what my parents paid for.

Agree 100%. Frankly I'm still gobsmacked that an Australian company can legally get way with this with no apparent fear of any real recourse.

It's like ordering a premium automobile, turning up on delivery day, only to be told your car has been sold, here's an inferior alternative and 1/3 of the price difference ... goodbye.

Ok, I'll stick my neck out. Where is the "company representative"* now ? How about justifying $1200 for downgrade from J to Y, ie a fraction of the real price difference ?

*I use this term deliberately rather than a member name, as I am bemused by the tendency here to anthropomorphize the PR representatives of a billion dollar company who post under a single member name. Seriously, if you were such a company, would you entrust your public utterances on the most important internet forum for QF to a single, autonomous individual ? I have always assumed that we were communicating with a group of QF staff, perhaps the whole PR dept. I suspect there have been meetings about how to deal with the "EmilyP and her parents" situation.

Since the initial PR strategy made things worse, the current strategy seems to be to lie low, in the hope that it will eventually blow over.

We - as customers who could also be shafted in the same way - need a strategy to ensure that it does not.

 

[RB]

I am now re-opening this thread as there is some new information. See attached PM I received from EmilyP


When posting on this thread, please avoid simply repeating what has been said already. As always, please keep the tone constructive

Sadly not much new or constructive is being posted

 

[DC3]

Waiting for a whistle-blower to pop up.

 

[DC3]

Sadly not much new or constructive is being posted

From QF?

 

[JohnPhelan]

I'm not intending to reread this entire thread, (I have read it once) however can anyone recall if the effected pax had their QFF numbers in their booking? It is one thing to be QFFSG, it's another to actually have it listed on a TA booked flight.

You have almost hit the nail exactly on the head. But it's not the QFF number in the booking that matters - it's the number being on the e-ticket. I had an instance recently where the system could not see my status, despite my QFF number being in the booking. The problem was the number had not been transferred to the e-ticket (no idea how), and Altea works on what is on the e-ticket.

 

[maroonone]

Wow - 1275 posts and going strong. The key that QF (and many similar organisations) miss is if you get the initial decision/compensation/reparation right all you might get is a post about how well a situation was handled (and probably 6 or so comments on the post with a smiley face from RedRoo). As this went on forever a nice assurance from QF that there were no non-tech staff duty travelling in J or F and there were no CL etc with upgrades granted in the J cabin on the flight - this would then mean a paying person has to go. Then you manage that process then and there even if airport staff are directed to contact head office noting the times of departure from UK and US are quite convenient for senior staff working in Sydney. As for compensation there is the issue that you didn't get what you paid for and this needs to be addressed as part of goodwill. Separately in my view is the fare difference issue. The fare difference should be easy - fare difference with economy fare with same conditions. Randomly picking dates in Feb 15 there is a $653 saver fare Syd-Lax in Y and Business sale $$3778 - difference $3125 or going full fare Y is $1453 and J $5978 - difference is $4525 - simple really or is too fair and simple.
I recently had a similar non airline (hotel) experience where it was explained to me that a "guaranteed" upgrade did not mean you necessarily got an upgrade. The communication on that one remains ongoing but the treatment has been a similar experience to here.
In future all these organisations have to do is be reaonable leaning towards generous and the relatively rare times these things happen are just part of business and not a huge issue.
Where the customer is at a disadvantage is it is sprung on you at a time critical point and some logical/rational discussion like asking about whether duty staff and points upgrades have been considered mightn't spring to mind.
I am not a QF basher and in fact they remain my preferred carrier but I do wonder why so many who will never fly QF again bother even looking at the QFF forum unless they are sadists or masochists.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Wow - 1275 posts and going strong. The key that QF (and many similar organisations) miss is if you get the initial decision/compensation/reparation right all you might get is a post about how well a situation was handled (and probably 6 or so comments on the post with a smiley face from RedRoo). As this went on forever a nice assurance from QF that there were no non-tech staff duty travelling in J or F and there were no CL etc with upgrades granted in the J cabin on the flight - this would then mean a paying person has to go. Then you manage that process then and there even if airport staff are directed to contact head office noting the times of departure from UK and US are quite convenient for senior staff working in Sydney. As for compensation there is the issue that you didn't get what you paid for and this needs to be addressed as part of goodwill. Separately in my view is the fare difference issue. The fare difference should be easy - fare difference with economy fare with same conditions. Randomly picking dates in Feb 15 there is a $653 saver fare Syd-Lax in Y and Business sale $$3778 - difference $3125 or going full fare Y is $1453 and J $5978 - difference is $4525 - simple really or is too fair and simple.
I recently had a similar non airline (hotel) experience where it was explained to me that a "guaranteed" upgrade did not mean you necessarily got an upgrade. The communication on that one remains ongoing but the treatment has been a similar experience to here.
In future all these organisations have to do is be reaonable leaning towards generous and the relatively rare times these things happen are just part of business and not a huge issue. Where the customer is at a disadvantage is it is sprung on you at a time critical point and some logical/rational discussion like asking about duty staff and points upgrades mightn't spring to mind.

The flight didn't have an F cabin and Red Roo has already stated that there were no staff in J but otherwise an excellent summation.

 

[Moody]

Waiting for a whistle-blower to pop up.

And say what, exactly.

Since it's so popular with our glorious leaders, let's scrape a few barnacles off this hoary old thread.

Barnacle 1 - Business Class was over-subscribed. This happens to all airlines at some time or another, whether from over-booking or IRROPS. Qantas is not a serial offender in this, and gets loadings better than most. [Scrape]

Barnacle 2 - Qantas offered to put the OP (and others) up for the night and get $700 for their troubles if they could delay travel for a day. Pretty fair offer but the OP declined. [Scrrape]

Barnacle 3 - A Qantas representative (allegedly) took their frustrations out on the OP in a less than stellar example of customer service. Qantas have accepted this as fact, have taken actions to address it and given the OP 50K points and an apology. [Sccrrrape!]

Which gets us to the issue that worries the precious listeners the most ...

The compensation table for those that choose a downgrade over a reschedule or refund, is overly simplistic and works in Qantas' favour. This is the barnacle that is stuck fast to the good ship AFF, as it hints at privilege being only an ephemeral thing that status does not always protect.

Solution - fly economy. From there the only way is up!