Downgraded from Business Class.

[drron]

Just possibly another avenue.Some years ago a rental car company at LAX tried to nickel and dime me by insisting that no matter what I would have to pay for a full tank of gas on return at their rates.Just stood my ground and they caved.It upset me however so I emailed the California Attorney General-just google for the email address.Got a personal reply with a follow up describing it as a widespread scam that they were cracking down on.Got a very grovelling reply from the Preident of Dollar rentals-no compensation as I was not out of pocket.
As this occurred in California and costs nothing it may be worth a shot.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It appears Qantas did not uphold its Customer Charter. From a good faith perspective this is an important point; it's not a legal question which would be argued tooth and nail by QF's lawyers. Whilst we all want the OP's situation to be resolved, and we'd all be interested to know exactly how it is (hopefully) resolved, IMHO the best chances for the OP to obtain a result is to now deal with QF confidentially, reiterate a reasonable demand, and report back if and when an acceptable agreement is reached. If QF doesn't play ball then pursue any other avenue. The best thing QF can hope for is the OP's parents satisfied and a public acknowledgment of that on this forum.

I have edited my post #252 regarding volunteers.

It seems volunteers are only required where the passenger(s) are denied boarding on the flight in its entirety. Not just the cabin booked.

So even the QF charter wouldn't apply as the pax were uplifted, albeit in a different class.

 

[maninblack]

Just possibly another avenue.Some years ago a rental car company at LAX tried to nickel and dime me by insisting that no matter what I would have to pay for a full tank of gas on return at their rates.Just stood my ground and they caved.It upset me however so I emailed the California Attorney General-just google for the email address.Got a personal reply with a follow up describing it as a widespread scam that they were cracking down on.Got a very grovelling reply from the Preident of Dollar rentals-no compensation as I was not out of pocket.
As this occurred in California and costs nothing it may be worth a shot.

Oh yes. Americans are not shy to stand their ground and stand on their legal rights. Australians are weak on this point, no Bill of Rights to stand on, but I digress...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If you want to carry on like a pork chop - sure. Plenty of youtube vids showing d'heads in action. Who suggested this was the best course of action ?

It's rubbish to suggest that demanding a conversation to review the facts is going to get you locked-up. Being petrified into submission is a choice...

A couple of years ago I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you - don't be petrified into submission. But then i saw for myself how wrong that can be.

As my direct experience shows - there is no requirement to carry on like a pork chop. A simple 'don't walk away until we resolve this issue' after the agent has made it clear they aren't willing to discuss it any further, can result in the police being called.

Now they may not 'lock you up', but they can certainly escort you from the airport.

Once that happens, an airline is potentially within their rights to deny you boarding, with no compensation, under their terms and conditions.

 

[amaroo]

As my direct experience shows (and you can't argue with it) - there is no requirement to carry on like a pork chop. A simple 'don't walk away until we resolve this issue' after the agent has made it clear they aren't willing to discuss it any further, can result in the police being called.

Now they may not 'lock you up', but they can certainly escort you from the airport.

Once that happens, an airline is potentially within their rights to deny you boarding, with no compensation, under their terms and conditions.

I'm glad there are people out there "scared stiff" to push their rights .... makes my job of passing the problem/issue/bump onto someone else that much easier

It's quite likely that these people held first/middle/last place in a long list of potential people to be bumped ... the list gets worked until the path of least resistance is found. Again, exactly how my direct experience (posted above) played out..

 

[vetrade]

I'm glad there are people out there "scared stiff" to push their rights .... makes my job of passing the problem/issue/bump onto someone else that much easier

"Scared stiff" is a bit extreme amaroo. The take home message should be to exercise discretion and not push your luck too far - put your side of the argument to the airline staff but don't keep harping along the same lines repeatedly. The counter staff would be under instructions to handball any dispute with passengers to police at the first sign it could escalate - and arguing the point to-and-fro with them will soon see them interpret that as an "escalation". Airlines definitely don't want their employees engaging in a "slanging match" in front of a whole lot of other pax.

Standing up for your rights is valid but authorities are very touchy about airports because, without wanting to sound too dramatic, they are always conscious of the possibility that a dispute could be a diversion for a terrorist plot (not that I'm suggesting EmilyP's folks look like terrorists!!). Staff therefore have a low threshold when it comes to "calling in the troops" and it is wise for airline passengers to take that into account.

 

[Princess Fiona]

"Scared stiff" is a bit extreme amaroo. The take home message should be to exercise discretion and not push your luck too far - put your side of the argument to the airline staff but don't keep harping along the same lines repeatedly. The counter staff would be under instructions to handball any dispute with passengers to police at the first sign it could escalate - and arguing the point to-and-fro with them will soon see them interpret that as an "escalation". Airlines definitely don't want their employees engaging in a "slanging match" in front of a whole lot of other pax.

Standing up for your rights is valid but authorities are very touchy about airports because, without wanting to sound too dramatic, they are always conscious of the possibility that a dispute could be a diversion for a terrorist plot (not that I'm suggesting EmilyP's folks look like terrorists!!). Staff therefore have a low threshold when it comes to "calling in the troops" and it is wise for airline passengers to take that into account.

Here's a very recent example and this one isn't even in the US
Armed police called to passenger revolt at Heathrow as plane is delayed for ten hours - Transport - News - London Evening Standard

 

[amaroo]

"Scared stiff" is a bit extreme amaroo.

Agreed. Just mirroring the emotive language used up-thread .... "the police will be called and you'll be arrested".

 

[BAM1748]

Here's a very recent example and this one isn't even in the US
Armed police called to passenger revolt at Heathrow as plane is delayed for ten hours - Transport - News - London Evening Standard

Pretty shocking, airlines now use the police to fix things when they (the airline) demonstrate they couldn't handle the situation promptly and with a bit of customer service.

 

[BD1959]

I have for many years booked all our airfares direct with Qantas. I can't say whether it has given us better service or not. However it has meant on the rare occasions when I have needed changes I can deal directly with Qantas rather than negotiating indirectly. I have always had this gut feeling that Qantas would be more inclined to look after their "own" customers, but I have never needed to put this to the test. Seeing some of the comments on here I wonder if the fact that we have never been asked to downgrade might be because of this, but who knows - maybe just lucky (although we are not normally lucky - just have to look at our positions on the Gallipoli waiting list to see that ).

I think a distinction needs to be drawn between IIROPS and standard changes. The one major time I had a disruption was a few years ago, on an outbound MEL-MAN via HKG and HEL - obviously transferring into AY at HKG. The HEL-MAN sector was actually on a separate booking. The MEL-HKG leg was severely delayed due to a typhoon affecting the inbound aircraft, I was going to miss the AY connection. QF initially looked to work through the TA who had booked on my behalf and then - because of time constraints - elected to speak with me directly. This was in the days prior to any great status with QF and the outcome was a very satisfied customer.

Similarly, for work-travel, I'm compelled to book through the Corporate TA. As I've posted previously, it's almost inevitable these days that IIROPS occur between SYD and MEL (particularly with the rationalisation of flights both domestic airlines make). Again, because of IIROPS, QF deal with me directly. Seriously, I'm unsure whether my current status makes a difference.

All of the above have *always* gone well. And because of this I'm absolutely gob-smacked at what QF have done to two SG customers.

Contrast this with bookings made through a TA where I've looked to change a return flight. QF have - quite rightly in my book - referred me back to the TA.

Regards,

BD

 

[JohnK]

I said a few pages back that the manifest looked dodgy. And that as an "older couple" may have been selected as an "easy target" to bump if there were a lot of suits onboard.

As just posted, I wonder just who it was who ended up sitting in their manifested seats?

That information would be available right now. All seat movements whether voluntary or involuntary are logged.

It would be nice if that information was released but I smell a rat.

 

[maninblack]

It would be nice if that information was released but I smell a rat.

Me too. I smell airline employees, friends of airline management or friends of ground staff somewhere in this story somewhere.

 

[Pushka]

Me too. I smell airline employees, friends of airline management or friends of ground staff somewhere in this story somewhere.

Conspiracy theory. But as it was a late change then that is what happens. I'd say given the actions of the ground crew versus the cabin crew, that ground staff might have something to tell.

 

[N860CR]

Me too. I smell airline employees, friends of airline management or friends of ground staff somewhere in this story somewhere.

It would have to involve friends/employees on fully paid business tickets who happened to be friendly with the lax staff, so that's probably unlikely.

Realistically, it was just oversold and more checked in than planned. Downgrades happen to those who checked in last (same as offloads) so it was just a case of poor timing.

 

[BAM1748]

It would have to involve friends/employees on fully paid business tickets who happened to be friendly with the lax staff, so that's probably unlikely.

Realistically, it was just oversold and more checked in than planned. Downgrades happen to those who checked in last (same as offloads) so it was just a case of poor timing.

Agree, staff are last on and aren't issued anything above a Y boarding pass until boarding commences, then if there is a J seat they might be bumped up if everyone else is accommodated at the gate.

Matt

 

[DC3]

So it's all kosher then?

 

[N860CR]

So it's all kosher then?

By the sounds of things... It meets their conditions of carriage. Certainly doesn't make it right though and it will cost a lot of future business.

I can't believe airlines are allowed to write things like "we don't guarantee you a seat" into T&Cs.

Lexus could make a lot of money writing a clause that they don't guarantee you an ES300 and just hand over a Camry plus "compensation" of $1200.

 

[maninblack]

So it's all kosher then?

As bacon

 

[Pushka]

It would have to involve friends/employees on fully paid business tickets who happened to be friendly with the lax staff, so that's probably unlikely.

Realistically, it was just oversold and more checked in than planned. Downgrades happen to those who checked in last (same as offloads) so it was just a case of poor timing.

This couple booked in early as that's what they do.

 

[farstar]

It seems this whole incident could have been avoided if QANTAS check in staff had asked for volunteers with compensation rather than just downgrade someone arbitrarily, I would be surprise if at least two pax wouldn't have minded an extra day in LA paid for by QANTAS with compensation.