Domestic Single Aisle Premium Strategy at VA

[dk4]

Just a little bit of would-be-airline-CEO style strategy talk, for an Easter long weekend...

So, what do you think of the new staggered premium seats for E2 Embraer E-jets?

These are configurable with up to 50" pitch, and when done so, resemble a more "lounge-like" premium cabin in-flight experience, for flights with ranges up to 5,000 KMs.

So, should Virgin continue with its "same, same but different, B737 business class approach" or do something completely different?

 

[toowongman]

That's a whole box of awesome, but with VA ditching the aircraft type we can only dream.
Then again I'm still waiting for footrests in 737 J.

 

[froggerADL]

It seems like a lot of wasted space to me.

 

[clipped_wings]

It seems like a lot of wasted space to me.

Hush your Lips! They'll hear you!

 

[travelislife]

I don't get the 'advantage' of that layout over a conventional 2-2? Window still has to step over aisle?

 

[deva22]

As many have said before, I'd like to see the AA style A321 setup, but only for transcon is it really necessary.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I don't get the 'advantage' of that layout over a conventional 2-2? Window still has to step over aisle?

2-2 doesn't fit in a standard E190 business layout. This layout would allow for an almost 2-2 rather than 1-2 and the PITA overhead locker on the port side would be full size.

I still can't fathom VA's desire to ditch the E-Jets. The ATR gamble failed (surprise, surprise) and now there's rumour that they'll be extending their reliance on Reliance with the Qld ATR routes unable to cater for 737's, most likely being either ditched and left to Q-link or serviced with the Reliance F70's.

I'm guessing there'll be more than 1 at VA that wish they persisted a bit longer with the E70's and now continue with the E-90's. I think they'll still be let go though and there's no chance they'll be even contemplating a premium refit even if by some miracle they do retain them. How many E90's are left, I wonder? I think they've all gone from the Qld routes (at least I haven't seen one for ages).

 

[eastwest101]

Nearly every operator of the ATR worldwide makes money out of flying them, only VA found a way to lose money flying ATRs so that says something about VA Regional management, instead of fixing the management/cultural problems they disposed of the aircraft and will be gifting the regional routes to QF link.

If they had kept a critical mass of E170 and E190 fleet then they would have had options, despite the received wisdom that E170s and E190s never make money ever, which I strongly dispute, it would have given them an advantage in the market that they no longer have, now they are stuck with the B738 or nothing dilemma.

Alliance have a large F70 and F100 fleet that they picked up for next to nothing and can still make money on with lower utilisation despite their slightly higher fuel burn. Low fuel prices, coprorate overheads and wage costs and high upfront capital costs and high lease costs have made marginal improvements on fuel efficiency almost irrelevant and meaningless (except in long haul operations).

VA fleet planning and acquisitions has resulted in a complex hot steaming mess of fleet planning and types, and then they keep picking and changing their minds and never give enough subfleets the critical mass or time to perform.

B773 - great aeroplane but not enough of them
A332 - good plane but not enough of them
B738 - good plane and enough of
B737 - missed opportunity to leverage off common type with B738
E190 - ok plane but not enough
E170 - missed opportunity to leverage off common type with E190
A320 - good plane but not enough range and not enough of them
ATR - VA seem to be the only airline that can't make money out of this type

 

[Deleted member 29185]

ATR - VA seem to be the only airline that can't make money out of this type

I suppose it's easy to nit pick with VA (let's face it, they provide more than enough targets), but I wonder whether loadings have caused them issues with the ATR. I have no idea what their loadings were like, but surely full ATR's must = good returns given the ATR's purported benefit with fuel burn etc? From my perspective, I flew the VA ATR, twice I think and hated them with a passion and decided I'd fly just about anything other than them. The only reason is the comfort (or lack thereof). They're slower which means comfort is desirable. Those seats were anything but comfortable. I fly ATR's at least 2-3 times a month and I have no problems with the plane themselves, but the ATR's I fly have comfortable seats and a reasonable in-flight food offering and are actually enjoyable. VA's ATR's were not, so I do have to wonder if there are many others with the same mind set as me ... fly anything other than a VA ATR!

 

[deva22]

I suppose it's easy to nit pick with VA (let's face it, they provide more than enough targets), but I wonder whether loadings have caused them issues with the ATR. I have no idea what their loadings were like, but surely full ATR's must = good returns given the ATR's purported benefit with fuel burn etc? From my perspective, I flew the VA ATR, twice I think and hated them with a passion and decided I'd fly just about anything other than them. The only reason is the comfort (or lack thereof). They're slower which means comfort is desirable. Those seats were anything but comfortable. I fly ATR's at least 2-3 times a month and I have no problems with the plane themselves, but the ATR's I fly have comfortable seats and a reasonable in-flight food offering and are actually enjoyable. VA's ATR's were not, so I do have to wonder if there are many others with the same mind set as me ... fly anything other than a VA ATR!

I've only flown on an ATR with NZ. I found it to be very comfortable with excellent pitch for Your! No J option at all though

 

[Deleted member 29185]

No J option at all though

The J (or W, whatever the OP is discussing) was an option for the E-Jets, not the ATR.

 

[Justchecking]

No point looking at options for an aircraft they will no longer have. I'm a bit confused about the point of this thread? I don't think they're going to bring the eJet back. As far as domestic J on the 737, well that aircraft has many better options than this. None of them will probably be on Virgin's shopping list.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I'm a bit confused about the point of this thread?

I think confusion is the latest buzz word at VA. I don't think any of us can rule in or out what they may do as they seem to have gone to great lengths to create a total mishmash of aircraft types. That alone must surely cost dollars with aircrew certifications and maintenance/stock issues and double-ups.

From memory, the non J routes were disbanded a few months back, so perhaps that was the sign of standardising with a J product everywhere, effectively pushing out ATR's and 737-700's, which may also mean the E90s possibly might be retained for a tad longer ... or not.

 

[Justchecking]

That explains it then. I stopped listening to 'announcements' some time ago. Once they announced getting rid of the turboprops and whatever else I was just kind of like. Jeez so rolling back all the changes made since 2011 then? Could have saved themselves a bundle and just kept their existing fleet, added a couple of spiffy lounges and called it a day.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

That explains it then.

LOL!! Please be aware I used the words perhaps, may, possibly and might ... all in the same sentence! I have a sneaking suspicion there will still be plenty of explaining to come, after they work out what spin they're best able to put on it!

 

[Justchecking]

Anyway, back to the topic of the thread. I tend to think that if they'd had a proper business class product on the 737, like a JetBlue mint seat, they could have upped the frequency between all capital cities and PER and still had happy campers in business. They would have beaten QF's 737 business product and still been a comfortable option even coast to coast. Sure it's not an international business suite, but honestly now that HKG has opened up how likely is that product going to keep flying coast to coast? Sure they may have no plans to change it now, but in the future?

It wasn't necessary to go head to head with QF's international biz product to have gotten a good following for the airline. Decent lounges, a premium product that was consistent yet appropriate for the domestic market and keen pricing would have done it. No-one thinks VA is a premium airline anyway, so they could have created a niche for themselves as a worthy and good value product that FF's found consistent and excellent value. Instead of ending up where they are, with a super premium international business product that's only available on limited routes and barring an aircraft change and rest has pretty mixed reviews.

Don't know about anyone else but I'd prefer a consistent premium class across all routes and on all (jet) aircraft. That might not quite be international standards but is comfortable enough for domestic travel and is found on nearly all aircraft you'll fly on within that domestic network. They missed an opportunity to bring something different to the AUS market and tried to go where their budget limits them.