Do You Have a Company Travel Budget Policy?

[robd]

robd, I hope this all has given you a bit of insight for you if you are still interested in drafting a company travel policy.

The only caveat going forward is that if your policy is a new thing for the company, you will definitely need to be prepared for a minor backlash and a period of acceptance, as well as your policy will need to be well grounded (e.g. ATO guidelines) and founded on good principles both for the company (not just in the profit sense, perhaps it can be pitched it is good for discipline and customer relations).

People will have to get used to the new guidelines and also to possibly increased paperwork. You will definitely need to get your line management (including the one smitten with the "shrewd travelling one") on side, without a doubt. And you will have to make clear that for transparency reasons, judicious justification will need to accompany "exceptions", e.g. an expense approved by a manager that is well above the policy (and this need for justification shouldn't be a chore "just 'cos", but it should be because it is the right thing to do).

And of course, never forget that the policy will also apply to you.

Thanks to all for your input on this topic.

Anat0l, I will indeed be drafting, not only a travel policy, but also guidelines for use of the company credit cards.

It is unfortunate that we are now required to document in black and white, albeit good Company practise, the policies that others employees have been able to adhere for many years for the sake of one.

I am aware that doing this, particularly in a small company environment, may send a "we do not trust you" message, and I hope it does. Alas, from what I am looking at, that is indeed the case on this occasion.

 

[harvyk]

I am aware that doing this, particularly in a small company environment, may send a "we do not trust you" message, and I hope it does. Alas, from what I am looking at, that is indeed the case on this occasion.

Be very careful when using the "we do not trust you" message. It can easily backfire and your star performers leave. I have seen it happen before, and it was not pretty.

If you are going to go ahead with this make sure you word it in such a way as "Of late we've been asked what is acceptable and what is not, to help ease any confusion we have formed the following guidelines". Make sure that your guidelines both treat people as adults, and acknowledges that they have put their life on hold to help out the company, but at the same time shows that spending $1000 per person per night on dinner is not acceptable either.

About the worst thing you could do is force everyone to use one airline over another. If we were told tomorrow the company travel policy was QF only, I know of at least one of our guys who's response was that he would refuse to travel for work. Likewise if we where told it's DJ all the way, I wouldn't be overly happy (as my status and points are all with QF).

I know you have a person in mind with this policy, be careful that your policy doesn't prevent them from doing their job. Yes there are cases where someone is simply living the life on the companies credit card, but there is some genuine cases where wining and dining the customer (and giving out stress balls with the companies logo on it) does actually help win business. As I said before, perhaps the answer is not come down on this person (as no doubt they will look for the loopholes in any policy you come up with) but instead give them enough rope to hang themselves with. Make sure they have easily identifiable metric's, and don't accept the explanation of anyone who says "their input can't be measured", and make sure they stick to them. Chances are the MD is probably already doing this right now, and if they are not or the MD doesn't care (for example they are actually good friends), you may very well be stepping into the middle of something that will end badly for you.

 

[robd]

Be very careful when using the "we do not trust you" message. It can easily backfire and your star performers leave. I have seen it happen before, and it was not pretty.

If you are going to go ahead with this make sure you word it in such a way as "Of late we've been asked what is acceptable and what is not, to help ease any confusion we have formed the following guidelines". Make sure that your guidelines both treat people as adults, and acknowledges that they have put their life on hold to help out the company, but at the same time shows that spending $1000 per person per night on dinner is not acceptable either.

About the worst thing you could do is force everyone to use one airline over another. If we were told tomorrow the company travel policy was QF only, I know of at least one of our guys who's response was that he would refuse to travel for work. Likewise if we where told it's DJ all the way, I wouldn't be overly happy (as my status and points are all with QF).

I know you have a person in mind with this policy, be careful that your policy doesn't prevent them from doing their job. Yes there are cases where someone is simply living the life on the companies credit card, but there is some genuine cases where wining and dining the customer (and giving out stress balls with the companies logo on it) does actually help win business. As I said before, perhaps the answer is not come down on this person (as no doubt they will look for the loopholes in any policy you come up with) but instead give them enough rope to hang themselves with. Make sure they have easily identifiable metric's, and don't accept the explanation of anyone who says "their input can't be measured", and make sure they stick to them. Chances are the MD is probably already doing this right now, and if they are not or the MD doesn't care (for example they are actually good friends), you may very well be stepping into the middle of something that will end badly for you.

Thanks for your concern.

The policies will definately apply to everyone. Having them in written form and distributed to everyone, will mean that no-one can use the excuse that they weren't told.

It is really upsetting to have a single employee abuse the trust that has been placed in them, and I can assure you, without going into detail, this is a case of "give him an inch, and he'll take a mile", in all aspects. If only he was a star performer!

PS. We are not affiliated with any specific airline for our domestic travel. The MD does 2 - 3 international plus several domestic flights per year and prefers to book with OW carriers as he has a paid Q Club membership, (silly MD books with TA who puts him on non SC earning flights - should be SG well and truly by now - face palm slap to noggin')

 

[harvyk]

It is really upsetting to have a single employee abuse the trust that has been placed in them, and I can assure you, without going into detail, this is a case of "give him an inch, and he'll take a mile", in all aspects. If only he was a star performer!

Yes, I know a few people like that.

Perhaps as an idea, once you have worked out a policy, post it up here (obviously omitting anything which could be considered commercial in confidence), I'm sure what ever you come up with at least one AFFer has had to work under that rule and would be able to provide feedback of what it's actually like.

The other thing is certain rules which on the surface look good and save money have pitfalls which are not always obvious, for example a previous employer I once work for had a rule that all employees who needed to travel between CBR-SYD had to drive their own personal car. What they forgot to account for was what would happen if something happened to the employees car, for example it gets vandalised, like what happened to my car :evil:.

Needless to say, that caused all sorts of problems thanks to insurance, and the end result was it ended up more expensive for the company than had we simply flown.

 

[11sjw]

I am aware that doing this, particularly in a small company environment, may send a "we do not trust you" message, and I hope it does. Alas, from what I am looking at, that is indeed the case on this occasion.

Had the same thing happen in the company i work for. What it did create was a "work to rule" campaign as most saw it as the company being stingy. Hence guys that used to drive to their first rural appointment (6hrs away) on a Sunday but would book 5 or 6 cans of beer up a night as expenses, now left on Monday mornings and (effectively wasting a day) would only book their permissible two cans.

Alcohol is a difficult one given the OH&S implications. Meals on the other are pretty straight forward. Don't be stingy (just be realistic) and all should be fine. For example, numerous times it was ok to catch a $10 taxi to a cheap brekky establishment, eat (had to be <$15) and catch a $10 taxi back instead of spending $20-$25 at the hotel, go figure

 

[robd]

Had the same thing happen in the company i work for. What it did create was a "work to rule" campaign as most saw it as the company being stingy. Hence guys that used to drive to their first rural appointment (6hrs away) on a Sunday but would book 5 or 6 cans of beer up a night as expenses, now left on Monday mornings and (effectively wasting a day) would only book their permissible two cans.

Alcohol is a difficult one given the OH&S implications. Meals on the other are pretty straight forward. Don't be stingy (just be realistic) and all should be fine. For example, numerous times it was ok to catch a $10 taxi to a cheap brekky establishment, eat (had to be <$15) and catch a $10 taxi back instead of spending $20-$25 at the hotel, go figure

I guarantee that the only person this policy will affect, is the guy who is currently abusing it. The Company knows the value of keeping the employees happy, hence the other two reps have been with us 21 and 7 years respectively. If you're taking a customer out now and then, that's ok. Or having a few beers at a country RSL, no problem. Trust me, it really is a great company to work for.

 

[Hvr]

This thread on FlyerTalk may be of interest to some posters here.

Ridiculous things your company has done to reduce travel expenses - FlyerTalk Forums

I am sure there are some stories you can all relate to.

 

[Ausbt]

Australia-wide company with some o/s. 160+ employees.

Hotel $180
Flights: saver class with preference for Virgin but not mandatory
Food: Breakfast $15, Lunch $20, Dinner $40
Taxis if required but a preference for Skybus & Airtrain

 

[vitagen]

All fares are bfod

>6 hrs J

Sent from my GT-I9100 using AustFreqFly

 

[Ausbt]

This thread on FlyerTalk may be of interest to some posters here.

Ridiculous things your company has done to reduce travel expenses - FlyerTalk Forums

I am sure there are some stories you can all relate to.

Quite a few years back I was managing a small law firm in Sydney. The boss (a wealthy but notorious skin-flint) asked me to draft up a mobile-phone policy for our 'fleet' of precisely one phone that was to be shared between three lawyers! You can imagine the reaction from these precious little-dears, phrases such as "I've never been so insulted" and "who on earth do you think you are?". The female family lawyer simple never forgave me and made it her life's mission to try to make my life hell from that day on, but I outlasted her. But yeah, setting up a roster system for three people to share one phone, particularly when they are lawyers, is a real blast

As far as genunine travel expenses at that firm go, well, we certainly gave them a nice-little budget for train tickets. Encouraged them to buy after 9 am during the off-peak period as well!

 

[robd]

Referring to the op, you be the judge -

1 hour meeting at Crown Melbourne - Valet Parking $50
Flight Mel - Syd (daytime during office hours) - short term car park MEL (the one that you usually just drop off or pick up from) $115
Flight Mel - Syd (no checked baggage) $410 (this was about $135 more than best fare)
Car Hire in Sydney (56kms travelled - 1 person only) - SV6 Holden $138
Meal on the way home from airport at about 5.30pm at Cafe approx. 15 mins from home $51.80

Perhaps I'm being unreasonable?

 

[The Rok]

Referring to the op, you be the judge -

1 hour meeting at Crown Melbourne - Valet Parking $50
Flight Mel - Syd (daytime during office hours) - short term car park MEL (the one that you usually just drop off or pick up from) $115
Flight Mel - Syd (no checked baggage) $410 (this was about $135 more than best fare)
Car Hire in Sydney (56kms travelled - 1 person only) - SV6 Holden $138
Meal on the way home from airport at about 5.30pm at Cafe approx. 15 mins from home $51.80

Perhaps I'm being unreasonable?

Holy <redacted> batman, thats taking the p1ss….. Almost $800 bucks for a 1 hour meeting?

How much was the meeting worth to the company? Is it measurable? If he is a sales rep what was the value of the order, I hope that can be justified!

 

[robd]

Holy <redacted> batman, thats taking the p1ss….. Almost $800 bucks for a 1 hour meeting?

How much was the meeting worth to the company? Is it measurable? If he is a sales rep what was the value of the order, I hope that can be justified!

Sorry, the parking at Crown was a separate day, but you can park yourself there for about $10.

The rest was in one day and this is typically how he spends.

 

[markis10]

Meal on the way home from the airport - huh? The ATO says no to meal claims once you are back at your destination!

Maybe a ration pack is in order: http://www.kitbag.com.au/products/24hr-1-Man-Combat-Ration-Pack-13000Kj.html

 

[harvyk]

First of all, 1 hour of valet parking at $50 - the question could be asked if he was running late for his meeting, would leaving the potential client sitting there whilst he was out looking for a car park really be a good use of time? That is the sort of thing which is likely to lose a client.

Meal at the end should not have been included, and whilst the choice of car in SYD might have been an overkill, it's not an overly outrageous overkill.
$410 for the flight (the no checked baggage plays no part) is pretty expensive, but what fare conditions where attached? Perhaps this was for a flexi fare as he knew his meeting may finish early, or run over time, and thus wanted the flexibility to extend a meeting later if needs be.

As for MEL airport parking, which car park did he park in, because looking at the MEL airport parking prices, the most expensive car park I can find is $65.00 (unless there is actually multiple days worth of parking in the claim), so I'm not sure where $115 could come from.

I'm not going to say it's cheap, and chances are your MD will be going over the numbers, but the MD will also have a second set of numbers with them, the amount of business this guy actually pulls in. I personally have to say, if I have a sales person who is costing me $800 a day in expenses and yet making $10,000 worth of sales a day, I'm going to be far more happy with them than a sales person who only costs $200 a day in expenses and yet is only making $5,000 worth of sales a day.

I'm sure there are figures there that you are just not privy to, and besides you mentioned at the very beginning that the MD is happy with this persons work. MD's of small businesses have little time (or money) for sales people who don't make the sales, trust me on that one.

 

[anat0l]

Referring to the op, you be the judge -

[-]1 hour meeting at Crown Melbourne - Valet Parking $50[/-]
Flight Mel - Syd (daytime during office hours) - short term car park MEL (the one that you usually just drop off or pick up from) $115
Flight Mel - Syd (no checked baggage) $410 (this was about $135 more than best fare)
Car Hire in Sydney (56kms travelled - 1 person only) - SV6 Holden $138
Meal on the way home from airport at about 5.30pm at Cafe approx. 15 mins from home $51.80

Perhaps I'm being unreasonable?

Holy coughballs batman, thats taking the p1ss….. Almost $800 bucks for a 1 hour meeting?

How much was the meeting worth to the company? Is it measurable? If he is a sales rep what was the value of the order, I hope that can be justified!

Seems quite a bit for a 1 hour meeting - $714.80! Surely there was something else to be done in SYD than just the meeting, otherwise such a trip could only be justified because it was important and timing yielded almost no other choice. (At this point, the whole perspective of trying to minimise expense considerably goes out the window a bit. But I assume his position is not one where his entire travel is only available / plan-able at the dead last minute....)

That said:

• Not relevant here, but the only good reason for the valet would be one being in a hurry. A fairly expensive choice, however.
• Unless the purpose of the trip was more than just a meeting, one could almost argue that it would've been cheaper (and far more convenient) to forgo the hire car and stick with taxis. Of course, the savvy ones here would not like this because they would miss out on their rental car points.
• I can't believe you can get a $410 ($205 each way) fare with no included baggage (unless JQ, but why...). Not that it's really relevant. The more important point is how much advance notice of the meeting was known before the flight could have been booked, and then of course how much needed to be considered in terms of flexibility (required or not), and exact timing of the flight (could he have left earlier, if a cheaper fare was available). The only reasonable interpretation (not assuming the worst) is that the trip was not organised until late and thus necessitated whatever fare was available.
• Normally for us, when you arrive back in your home city and at the airport, your meal entitlement effectively ceases. Some exceptions are made (e.g. very late, missed meal, lack of catering on board, small expenses like coffee), but I'd have trouble passing off a $50 meal charge, especially when it is so close to home and technically not part of the trip. I can see only one way that expense could be justified (latches on the fact he might've travelled in his own time), but it's admittedly straw clutching.

If you remove the meal the entire trip cost $650, but plenty of that was already the flight and ground transport. There doesn't appear to be any other meal expenses on there (no time for a meal? Lunch supplied?).


As I said, if this person is forced to travel at short notice often, or has a constrained diary, then I can kind of understand the odd selection of possibly higher costing flights. Also I could understand if his position involved quite a bit of running around (e.g. different clients), since inevitably running around works out better with a hire car than taxis. Without other context I can't really qualify this example - whether it's isolated or circumstantial is one thing; if it's a regular thing then I'd think it be wise that the company know that it is justified in endorsing that kind of travel and associated expense.

 

[cove]

My last meeting was next door at Meat and Wine in quiet area upstairs. The limo from airport was $70 and the food was about $90 for the two of us. Air fare in J done on Any Seat so cost was zip and that is how the top 5 in our company would do it.
Deal done without alcohol as it was during a business work day. Limo from Sydney to airport $35.

 

[robd]

Lots of valid points in your responses.

I have been doing my job for many years and have also followed numerous threads here relating to your business travels. There is virtually nothing financially in the business that I work for, that I would not know about (unless the boss is taking kickbacks in cash on the o/s trips that he does - and we have even discussed this - "it's his money Ralph" - hey, lets go halves, lol). I guess I'm trying to be prudent in my posts. I think I have a good understanding of the travelling businessperson, and that there needs to be some compensation (or definitely no disadvantage) to being employed in that capacity.

Lets say, hypothetically, that this employee states that he has a degree from the highest ranking university in the state. It's on his Linked In profile, but he doesn't include it on his CV. He tells all his workmates he has the degree, but there is a facility by which you can check these things and, nada, doesn't exist!

No new business has been obtained in the seven months he has worked at our company. In fact, he hasn't logged on to the software running the sales in those 7 months.

He uses figures that others have produced to create reports, putting them together in excel spreadsheets that he manually adds up. Obviously, he doesn't know how to use autosum let alone create formulas.

He runs his own side business, importing an accessory product that would be considered complimentary to our products, and clearly focuses his resources in this area, but the product group is not one that is profitable for our Company at this time. He also sponsors businesses with Company funds in this product group, but no sales have been registered with these "customers", but his own business products are featured on these business' websites. There is a drilldown function in the Mailguard system that lets you see who emails are being sent to and received from and being conservative, at least 60% relate to his personal business.

He uses our warehouse & logistics resources to send his own stock at our cost.

He purchases items for the Company and has the tax invoices made out in his own name (one example, 2 iPads for the reps).

The list goes on......

No lectures please. I know.

Sheesh, this post has taken me ages.

 

[The Rok]

Lots of valid points in your responses.

I have been doing my job for many years and have also followed numerous threads here relating to your business travels. There is virtually nothing financially in the business that I work for, that I would not know about (unless the boss is taking kickbacks in cash on the o/s trips that he does - and we have even discussed this - "it's his money Ralph" - hey, lets go halves, lol). I guess I'm trying to be prudent in my posts. I think I have a good understanding of the travelling businessperson, and that there needs to be some compensation (or definitely no disadvantage) to being employed in that capacity.

Lets say, hypothetically, that this employee states that he has a degree from the highest ranking university in the state. It's on his Linked In profile, but he doesn't include it on his CV. He tells all his workmates he has the degree, but there is a facility by which you can check these things and, nada, doesn't exist!

No new business has been obtained in the seven months he has worked at our company. In fact, he hasn't logged on to the software running the sales in those 7 months.

He uses figures that others have produced to create reports, putting them together in excel spreadsheets that he manually adds up. Obviously, he doesn't know how to use autosum let alone create formulas.

He runs his own side business, importing an accessory product that would be considered complimentary to our products, and clearly focuses his resources in this area, but the product group is not one that is profitable for our Company at this time. He also sponsors businesses with Company funds in this product group, but no sales have been registered with these "customers", but his own business products are featured on these business' websites. There is a drilldown function in the Mailguard system that lets you see who emails are being sent to and received from and being conservative, at least 60% relate to his personal business.

He uses our warehouse & logistics resources to send his own stock at our cost.

He purchases items for the Company and has the tax invoices made out in his own name (one example, 2 iPads for the reps).

The list goes on......

No lectures please. I know.

Sheesh, this post has taken me ages.

Fire him. If not it is setting a terrible precedent for the rest of your work force...

 

[yohy?!]

Referring to the op, you be the judge -

1 hour meeting at Crown Melbourne - Valet Parking $50
Flight Mel - Syd (daytime during office hours) - short term car park MEL (the one that you usually just drop off or pick up from) $115
Flight Mel - Syd (no checked baggage) $410 (this was about $135 more than best fare)
Car Hire in Sydney (56kms travelled - 1 person only) - SV6 Holden $138
Meal on the way home from airport at about 5.30pm at Cafe approx. 15 mins from home $51.80

Perhaps I'm being unreasonable?

Here's my take as a line manager/approver:

1 hour meeting at Crown Melbourne - Valet Parking $50 - DENIED, VALET PARKING NOT COVERED
Flight Mel - Syd (daytime during office hours) - short term car park MEL (the one that you usually just drop off or pick up from) $115 - DENIED TAXI ONLY FOR AIRPORT TRANSFER
Flight Mel - Syd (no checked baggage) $410 (this was about $135 more than best fare) DENIED MUST USE Best Fare Of Day
Car Hire in Sydney (56kms travelled - 1 person only) - SV6 Holden $138 DENIED MUST USE Econo-Rental
Meal on the way home from airport at about 5.30pm at Cafe approx. 15 mins from home $51.80 DENIED MEALS ONLY FOR TRAVEL OUT OF HOME CITY

The airfares and car hire should be signed off prior to the trip to ensure the policy is followed, the taxis and meal policies are just that - policies if they are spent over tough cookies...

Wonder what would happen if you covered the reasonable costs and let him eat the rest....