Do We Protest Too Much?

[Cocitus23]

Sometimes as I browse this excellent site, I find myself thinking how glad I am that I am not an employee of an airline, especially of Qantas. I don’t think my constitution could stand the load dumped upon it! Now don’t get me wrong. I have no claim to virtue here, having done my fair share of complaining, whingeing, coughing and carping about perceived failures of service. And I guess that such a forum as this, of its nature, inevitably attracts more adverse comment than favourable. So let me try to set the record straight.
I have not done as much flying as many of you. I am about to retire, so will soon be doing much less. Never-the-less, over my working life I have gone around the world a couple of times each year, and made innumerable trips to many destinations, both famous and obscure. Suffice it to say that I have flown enough for Qantas to bestow platinum upon me for many years now.
Now, looking back over my flying years, what I have to report is that the airline industry, and Qantas in particular, has delivered to me extremely high quality, consistent and dependable service.
Let us consider the usual list of gripes:
Delays: Yes, I have suffered the occasional delayed departure, but very few that I remember were really of consequence. Of course, I always try to leave a little float time in making my reservations, just in case something goes wrong. Of the thousands of airline connections I have made, only 3 or 4 were ever missed, and every time the re-scheduling was handled efficiently and courteously. Yes, I have suffered an unexpected overnight disruption, but only one, and that was in Chicago during an ice storm. Hardly the airline’s fault (UA), but they took every measure to transport me to a fine hotel where they had arranged a discount rate.
Food: Once I was served unthawed Beef Strogonoff by SU (Aeroflot) on a flight between Vladivostok and Omsk. No, they were not trying to give us a genuine Siberian experience, but they did apologise for the ovens malfunctioning. And in recent years I have preferred to pass on the offerings in the US domestic market. But other than that I have to say that the fare has been surprisingly good given the constraints of time, space and the number of mouths to feed.
Lost Baggage: I have never had anything lost, in the sense that I never saw it again. Yes, I have had temporarily mislaid bags, but surprisingly infrequently, maybe once every 100 flights. With one exception I have been reunited with my bags within 24 hours, generally less. The exception was 4 days somewhere between YYZ – IAD – BHM. I survived.
Emergencies: Once I had an aborted landing caused by a wind gust, just before touching down at Wellington. Never anything more serious than that.
Discourteous Service: I guess that I must have received discourteous service at some time, either in the air or on the ground, but frankly, I am at a loss now to even come up with a single instance. Occasionally, I probably even deserved discourteous service, but all I remember are polite smiles. On the other hand, I could report on many instances of rude, demanding passengers, often quite unrealistic in their expectations.
Is my experience totally unrepresentative?

 

[Warks]

I think you may have been lucky never to have had a shocker like many have experienced here but overall I'd have to agree with you. With Qantas especially I've never had an issue - any problems or annoyances I've had flying have been with my fellow passengers - and I bet you've got some stories there!
In over 20 years of flying I've only missed one connection with Qantas and had a flight cancelled that has meant an overnight stay the once - they put me up in the Sheraton which I can't complain about.
Poor experiences have been with Virgin and some dodgy overseas airlines. I agree there's a lot of venting here about QF probably from flyers who use SG and other high service airlines a lot. Yes the level of attentive service could be improved sometimes but I'm still happy when the number of takeoffs = number of landings.

 

[estate]

Most of what I read and hear I think is justified, though there is a bit of a "hate on Qantas" attitude that is similar to the way people think of Telstra.

But certainly when I read someone say how "appalled" they were to not have been offered a top-up on their drink on a flight in J I do start to wonder about people's attitudes and expectations. Yes, I appreciate that it cost several thousand dollars to be there, and yes, it would be nice for the tide to be kept in on your glass, but "appalled" and "shocked" are the wrong words - "disappointed" would be far more appropriate.

NB. my comments are related to airline and travel discussion in general, not to this forum.

 

[simongr]

Some comparative observations:

Delays: Many and frequent - most of them post push back and on the tarmac.

Food I don't like to gamble on int'l QF J flights simply because of the food (and service)

Lost Baggage Three weeks in London with no baggage followed by 4 days in NY with no baggage n the same trip.

Emergencies: Couldnt get gear up on KA HKG-PEK so 1 hour in the air at midnight to fly from HKG to HKG...

Discourteous Service QF Int'l J - roll your dice and take your chance..

 

[dajop]

..I do start to wonder about people's attitudes and expectations.

I don't think QF complaints are that unreasonable, it is related to the brand promise of the Qantas brand, and QF themselves do set expectations fairly high. Indeed the QF brand is positioned towards the top end of the market, often with pricing to match (regularly at a premium to many competitors). Take a look at travel classes on their website, to see the expectations they set.

Some of the complaints about Tiger are probably even harsher than QF - after all they set a pretty low standard, and do not create any expectations other than getting from A to B.

Having said all that, a few service issues and "disppointments" not withstanding, with over 1000 flights under my belt had very few significant disruptions other than those due to fog in CBR, and only had a few luggage delays, with it all reaching me eventually.

 

[Moody]

Yes. (QED).

 

[drron]

I guess my overall experiences are the same as the OPs.I do complain on various forums about service-usually not because it is a disaster but because it has not lived up to expectations created by the airline.
I cant remember complaining to airline staff(different story at hotels).
However I have complimented staff directly or by email to vthe company on several occasions-and I am aware of at least one occasion where i have benefited from doing so.
And yes I have seen other pax making an absolute idiot of themselves with their complaints.

 

[medhead]

Most of what I read and hear I think is justified, though there is a bit of a "hate on Qantas" attitude that is similar to the way people think of Telstra.

I think there is a difference here. Telstra do offer an overall appalling service. Unless you ring throught to complaints the telstra CSR just don't seem to give a damn. I've had them deny warranty on iphone headset (which apple cover under the warranty), I've had telstra retail stuff me around because of info from wholesale that they shouldn't have had and then blame me for the stuff up, and even the email complaints people give one the run around. But if one does ring their complaints people then they are very good a dealing with the complaint (practice? ). But they still try to sell the uncompetitive product. (sorry for the rant)

Basically, Telstra seem to have a pretty pervasive culture of poor customer service, which is disappointing as a customer and annoying as a shareholder :evil:

This is unlike Qantas, which as others say has random poor service. And in general, i find that the staff are generally helpful when raising issues with them. So I don't think raising fair and reasonable issues is related to a hate qantas culture.

 

[david870mdg]

Food: And in recent years I have preferred to pass on the offerings in the US domestic market.

Don't blame you, some might say what offerings?
I think we are lucky in AUS for the level of service we have in our domestic market and what we get.
Fair comments though

 

[jakeseven7]

Its pretty simple.

Qantas suffers from the classic Australian tall poppy syndrome, do well and you get torn down.

Sometimes I think people need a mental health check , now if we swapped Qantas and Virgin for a couple of the American or even European airlines then you would hear some real complaining. We have it very very very good here.

 

[bambbbam2]

Absolutely we complain too much. People don't remember how expensive flying used to be.. for example, the earliest flight I can remember was PER-SYD return in 1987.

I travelled on Australian Airlines /TAA and the fare was $468 return. That was half-price as i got a student fare. For adults it was $936.

Of course the service is going to go downhill as airlines income increases. It's the old saying 'you get what you pay for.'

There does seem to be a certain kind of 'entitlement' mentality - witness the currently popular Jetstar thread. The passenger did not check in in the advertised, consistent deadline. It then becomes Jetstar's fault as the travellers car supposedly broke down. Should the plane be held and hundreds of people inconvenienced so that a couple of passengers don't have to miss that flight?

When travelling, I always take the attitude that if I make it alive, I am happy. If my baggage also arrives, then I am grateful. If I also get upgraded and/or a good seat, then I am very happy.

 

[Batesy]

I think with Qantas the level of complaints often boils down to the issue being complained about, what impact it had on the traveller and the way it was handled by the airline.
For example, complaints about departure delays are more often about the way delays are communicated to passengers and how QF handle the passengers when they are in limbo.
I once spent 5 hours in the SIN QP waiting for the plane that had just brought me from LHR to continue onto SYD. The captain of the flight came into the QP on two occasions and updated the situation on the PA. Well handled by him. Howver the same the QP staff did nothing and also nothing about food for us. Then after that off to a hotel in SIN as the aircraft was declared unservicable. Very well handled with cabs organized, room credits for food great hotel. On the next flight a day later, in a J seat instead of Y and a$500 voucher in the mail a few weeks later. No complaints from me

The reverse can often happen with these sorts of things being poorly communicated and managed. I don't think that we often complain about trivial things, only things that have a major impact on our travel and that are poorly handled by the airline. I had a bad experience with BA on the same trip as above. If a BA staffer had simply walked up and down the check in line at CPH and explained what was going on, as well as manage the premium passengers it would have been far less painful, again it came back to how BA handled and communicated the situation.

My philosophy on complaining to QF is that if you don't tell them about your issues QF will not be able to fix it for the next person. Also the squeaky wheel gets the oil....

 

[david870mdg]

There does seem to be a certain kind of 'entitlement' mentality - witness the currently popular Jetstar thread. The passenger did not check in in the advertised, consistent deadline. It then becomes Jetstar's fault as the travellers car supposedly broke down.

Should the plane be held and hundreds of people inconvenienced so that a couple of passengers don't have to miss that flight?

.

Short answer = No.
It is almost impossible to avoid being offered travel insurance when booking a flight, especially from a travel agent as they want to make their bonus/commission quota.
It's your choice to take it or not, and if you're not covered.....

 

[Oneworldplus2]

IMO Yes and No.
They are offering a service to get from point A to point B (and maybe C and D...)
l've never had any troubles or anything wrose than a 1 hour delay to be honest. Could be lucky, but l think that they do run a good service.
The only issues l've got with QF is there upgrade policy and burning of miles. I've been on so many flights where there might be 3 people in J, and whY is choc-a-block.
QF policy looks to me like they reward those that fly up the pointy end. What about people that are Gold of Plat that have done the hard yards in Y? Or SFSC's, they have a choice of who to fly with and IMO, are more loyal and important than someone who's work pays for them to travel on QF.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[sampson]

Do we protest too much?

The answer depends the complaint and whether there are systemic issues such as the

- the price fixing that cost Qantas about $100m in fines, jailed execs and resulted in suits seeking $200m;

- Dixon wanted to save $A100m by trashing the Nagoya route. Tough luck for passengers who weren't prepared to get cash and free travel out of them.

- sale of flights long AFTER a Board or CEO decided they'd reroute the 'walking luggage'.

- The ACCC and CAV are looking into an airline atm. I hope the CEO budgeted on worst case scenarios.

 

[drron]

I just remembered,I have had a recent incident where i could have bagged QF.It was August 31 from NRT-SYD.On checkin we were told we are sorry but the flight will be boarding 30 minutes late.As a typhoon was sitting right over NRT my reply was "Thanks,I expected a longer wait".And it was.No announcements at all in QP.No change in boarding time on monitors.As usual we went to gate 5 minutes before advertised new boarding time only to find at gate there was no activity.Agent said it will be another 90 minutes.
When we had taken off the Captain came on apologising for the delay saying that ops in australia had made the call early that afternoon to delay the flight by 2 hours because of the weather.So why wasnt that time,which had already been decided,communicated to us at checkin and on the monitors.
No problems at all with the delay but the communication of it was poor.

 

[Lucky_man]

I remember my first visit to the Melbourne F Lounge. Some one was complaining bitterly about their J seat allocation. It was an upstairs isle and he did not want it upstairs of some other trivial matter. Apparently his profile should have prevented such an outragious mistake (and no he was not mobility impaired). The compalint was extensive and totally ridiculous from where I was standing.

As it was my first experience as WP I wanted to hand my Platinum card back to the lounge dragon, thank them for the WP status but resign it because I feared being associated with this type of person. I certainly could not live up to that behavoir.

So yes the more extreme behavior is from passengers.

 

[thewinchester]

...now if we swapped Qantas and Virgin for a couple of the American or even European airlines then you would hear some real complaining. We have it very very very good here.

Please, don't even joke about that. The stuff I read about US airline goings on daily scares the cough out of me - no concept of customer service there whatsoever.

 

[dajop]

QF policy looks to me like they reward those that fly up the pointy end. What about people that are Gold of Plat that have done the hard yards in Y? Or SFSC's, they have a choice of who to fly with and IMO, are more loyal and important than someone who's work pays for them to travel on QF.

Sorry to wander OT, but have to pick this up:

1) QF actually does reward those who've done the hard yards Y and made it to gold or plat. I can cite other airlines who don't. For example: I could do a return trip once a fortnight on SQ between SIN and Australia in whY - and get no recognition whatsoever for my loyalty if I travelled on their lower fares, that are the same as QF - Zilch. Zero. Nothing. On QF I would be platinum. Which airlines rewards those doing the hard yards in the Y cabin?

2) Here we go again ... why are those who are self funded more important than those whose work pays for them? Some instances those whose work pays don't have a choice, but in some they do. Due to a change in work travel I am now doing a bit of both work travel mixed with SFSC. I can tell you which travel QF get the most $/SC from, I am far more likely to try and minimise this number for personally funded travel, that's for sure.

 

[NM]

Generally I find Qantas very good. Its the inconsistency that I find the biggest issue.

As an example I will compare my last two QF97 BNE-HKG Sunday flights in economy, first one on a B fare, second on a Y fare (not that it should be relevant). Both times seating in the same seat (26G with empty 26F) on approx 70% loaded aircraft. So there is some consistency.

Flight 1: CSD comes to my seat, greets me by name and welcomes me onboard. Asks if I would like a newspaper and if there is anything else he can do for me. A rather large glass of Glenlivet is duly delivered to me from in front of the curtain. Offered another after lunch meal service was cleared away.

Flight 2: The only interaction I has with the CSD was when he handed out the HKG immigration and health declaration forms ("Staying in Hong Kong?". "Yes". "Here"). But CSD did greet several QF Platinum FF members seated in the rows immediately in front of me, offering newspapers and delivering glasses of wine from in front of the curtain.

I was offered a drink with the meal service (standard Y fare of course since that is the ticket I had purchased). I waited to see if a second drinks service would be offered - no. Just had the empty glass and can removed from the table without comment or offer for another. an hour or so later I requested a Ginger Beer and had to remind the FA 10 mins later when it had not arrived.

So it seems some CSDs only recognise Qantas Platinum FFs and some recognise OneWorld Emerald FFs for special treatment on board. While at Check-in, at the lounge, at the gate etc, OneWorld Emerald is consistently recognised (as it should be as a published benefit), once on-board its very inconsistent (and unpublished benefits of course).

One thing the that has been consistent is the program material on the QF IFE. Hvaing travelled now during July, August and September, I would estimate that 90% of the program material has not changed.