Discussion of fuel dumps

[paultiffen]

Hi,

I'd like to start a page similar to this ultra long thread on flyer talk

Trick it / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread - Page 1294 - FlyerTalk Forums

The main rules would be:
- Code your answers or better yet PM people directly
- Don't write your question in code as it doesn't help anything
- Don't reveal your 3x
- Don't ask a question unless you have spent at least an hour trying to understand the main points on your own or ask what some good sites are to understand the main points
- Be prepared to contribute if you have received help, possibly via PM
- Again this is not like mistake fares which can go in a matter of hours so please be careful
- These techniques/routes are not found without time and effort so don't just ask for help without having something in return even if it's a promise to help out once you understand.

I'm thinking that with a smaller community we might be more trusting and helpful to others as it's less of a tragedy of the commons type scenario. Emphasis would be on C6 originating fares obviously.

Hackmytrip has a good introduction on the idea and a couple of other examples.

Thanks,
Paul

 

[robd]

Hi,

I'd like to start a page similar to this ultra long thread on flyer talk

Trick it / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread - Page 1294 - FlyerTalk Forums

The main rules would be:
- Code your answers or better yet PM people directly
- Don't write your question in code as it doesn't help anything
- Don't reveal your 3x
- Don't ask a question unless you have spent at least an hour trying to understand the main points on your own or ask what some good sites are to understand the main points
- Be prepared to contribute if you have received help, possibly via PM
- Again this is not like mistake fares which can go in a matter of hours so please be careful
- These techniques/routes are not found without time and effort so don't just ask for help without having something in return even if it's a promise to help out once you understand.

I'm thinking that with a smaller community we might be more trusting and helpful to others as it's less of a tragedy of the commons type scenario. Emphasis would be on C6 originating fares obviously.

Hackmytrip has a good introduction on the idea and a couple of other examples.

Thanks,
Paul

This stuff makes my head hurt.

 

[Hvr]

Are you specifically referring to this post? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18691271-post19401.html

 

[paultiffen]

Are you specifically referring to this post? FlyerTalk Forums - View Single Post - Trick it / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread

Yes (filler for min)

 

[casanovawa]

That thread has seemed to get a bit nasty and insular...

I would be interested in understanding the concept a bit more, which i recall reading a bit of i think that thread previously or another thing similar, but not sure how relevant is to the way i travel...

 

[ProggerPete]

I've spent a bit of time looking into this and understand the concept, but have yet to construct a useful dump out of Oz. Seems much easier out of the US.

I'm sure they exist though.

 

[paultiffen]

Hi,

They are only really useful in Y as you are looking to ticket the flight in such a way as to remove the YQ which means you need a low base fare and high YQ

I've managed to do one only and it only removed about 150 SYD->LAX. I found these sites helpful:

Conversion of YQ to YR for AA Trans-Atlantic/Trans-Pacific Surcharges - Aviation News - etravelblackboard.com
http://www.amadeus.co.in/30/pdf/YQ_YRcalculationlogic.pdf
ARTA Advises Caution About New Interline Baggage Rules System

I think the reason they work better from America is that you are being charged YQ instead of YR.

	How to buy this ticket Tickets cannot be purchased directly from ITA Software. Provide this information to a travel agent to help them match the fares found. Make sure to provide the exact booking and fare codes shown. Fare 1: Carrier AA OJE0A9Q1 SYD to LAX (rules) Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code O Covers SYD-LAX (Economy) AU$250.00 Fare 2: Carrier AA OJE0A9Q1 LAX to SYD (rules) Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code O Covers LAX-SYD (Economy) AU$250.00 US International Arrival Tax (US) AU$17.40 USDA APHIS Fee (XA) AU$5.10 US Immigration Fee (XY) AU$7.10 US Customs Fee (YC) AU$5.60 Australian Passenger Movement Charge (AU) AU$55.00 Australian Int'l Passenger Service Charge (WY) AU$26.39 AA YR surcharge (YR) AU$680.00 US International Departure Tax (US) AU$17.40 Australian Int'l Passenger Service Charge (WY) AU$26.39 US September 11th Security Fee (AY) AU$2.60 US Passenger Facility Charge (XF) AU$4.60 Subtotal per passenger AU$1,347.58 Number of passengers x1 TOTAL AIRFARE & TAXES AU$1,347.58 This ticket is non-refundable. Changes to this ticket will incur a penalty fee.

 

[paultiffen]

Compared to some other airlines

How to buy this ticket Tickets cannot be purchased directly from ITA Software. Provide this information to a travel agent to help them match the fares found. Make sure to provide the exact booking and fare codes shown. Fare 1: Carrier LH TKNC3N NYC to FRA (rules) Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code T Covers JFK-FRA (Economy) $111.00 Fare 2: Carrier AC TKNC3N FRA to NYC (rules) Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code T Covers FRA-YUL (Economy), YUL-LGA (Economy) $111.00 US International Departure Tax (US) $17.20 (YQ) $258.00 US September 11th Security Fee (AY) $2.50 US Passenger Facility Charge (XF) $4.50 US International Arrival Tax (US) $17.20 USDA APHIS Fee (XA) $5.00 US Immigration Fee (XY) $7.00 US Customs Fee (YC) $5.50 German Airport Security Tax (DE) $8.70 German Passenger Service Charge (RA) $40.70 German Air Transport Tax (OY) $55.00 AC YQ surcharge (YQ) $258.00 Subtotal per passenger $901.30 Number of passengers x1 TOTAL AIRFARE & TAXES $901.30 This ticket is non-refundable. Changes to this ticket will incur a penalty fee.

I wonder if YQ was moved to YR to make it harder for people to do this.

 

[paultiffen]

Actually found somewhere else that they moved from YQ to YR as they would face fines etc for having YQ as you are not allowed to have fuel surcharges for the US carriers

 

[Danger]

That thread has seemed to get a bit nasty and insular...

Not unlike many threads on Flyertalk, unfortunately.

I've long subscribed to the trick it thread but I don't know the basics so can't make it work. When a member posts asking for guidance on how to make it work, and is happy to research and the like but just needs a steer in the right direction, some other member will come along and shoot them down in flames, accusing them of wanting something for nothing.

 

[ashleyn]

Some people have way too much spare time

 

[paultiffen]

I'm getting better at it, itamatrix helps a lot as does finding some flights a long way away

 

[oz_mark]

Actually found somewhere else that they moved from YQ to YR as they would face fines etc for having YQ as you are not allowed to have fuel surcharges for the US carriers

Doubt it. YQ and YR are both carrier charges. Some airlines put fuel surcharges as YQ and some as YR. There is nothing specific about YQ that means 'fuel surcharge'.

 

[casanovawa]

Can you get any really cheap flights from Oz or over in the US/Europe??

I think these buying miles with bonus from various programs gives me pretty cheap flights, what can learning all these codes and faffing about with it provide me again?? Wish they would repeat that stuff up from Rangoon again though...

And what is the big dif between YR and YQ again??? Without leeching/sponging off everyone else's knowledge??

 

[serfty]

...
And what is the big dif between YR and YQ again??? Without leeching/sponging off everyone else's knowledge??

YQ and YR are codes reserved for an ticketing airline to use for their own purpose in a booking taxies, levies and charges breakdown.

An airline could use them to denote any specific charge they desired.

Qantas decided to employ the YQ code to reflect their Fuel Fine component. They could have used YR instead if they had deemed it applicable.

Do some fare searches on ITA down the the T/L/C breakdown, these codes and a few more can be revealed.

 

[samh004]

Had never heard of this practice... however we already have a community with access to a private collection of flights and runs that in a sense is off the record and just uses code names, and that seems to work quite well. Not the same, but it's private.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

We've already started a thread similar to this - it involves booking using a website from Brazil - works a treat.

 

[ProggerPete]

This is a pretty bad dump. It's only partial and the 3X is fairly expensive, but it demonstrates the basic idea.

http://snag.gy/zxYDQ.jpg

http://snag.gy/dX77C.jpg

 

[paultiffen]

I'll post up a bit more on.how I think they are working. Now we have one example I would suggest not showing any 3xs as that's enough to get the concept

 

[casanovawa]

Ok, so adding the AB flights in that scenario reduces the fuel fine component somehow (or whatever charge YR denotes for that airline) and i assume you wouldn't even bother taking those AB flights or maybe if you were planning different trips in a year you mgiht be able to use the second set of flights, but still not really necessary... Hmmm...

Is there anything special about this 3x concept that keeps getting mentioned, is that talking about finding a combo of 3 flights to get from one destination to another on a route that typcially has a good chance of being able to be matched with another set of flights to have the YR/YQ drop somehow?? So has a low base fare which seems to be the holy of holies...