Different award availability between OneWorld ff programmes: QF gets less! | Australian Frequent Flyer
Australian Frequent Flyer

Welcome to Australia's leading independent Frequent Flyer and Travel Resource since 1998!
Our site contains tons of information that will improve your travel experience.

Joining AFF is fast, simple & absolutely free - register now and take immediate advantage of these great BENEFITS.

Once registered, this box will disappear. And you will see fewer advertisements :)

Login Now to remove this and all advertisements (GOLD and SILVER members)
Not a member? Register Now for free

Different award availability between OneWorld ff programmes: QF gets less!

dlam

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
107
I'm trying use my Qantas points get two, one-way business seats with Qatar from LHR-BNE. The QF site only shows one available each day whereas BA and AA both show two.
I called Qantas Premium to try and see if they can see different but they see the same as me.

My question is: is it normal for AA and BA to have more QR availability?
Is there a way around this given that QR seem to indeed have 2xJ seats available each day on this route?

Thanks!
 

aus_flyer

Established Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
1,434
It's becoming very common that airlines provide different award availability to different partners - and also often provide more availability to their own.

Unfortunately there's no way for QF to access in these circumstances.

If you were to book 1 with QF points and the other with AA or BA, it's generally better to book the QF seat first.
 

dlam

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
107
It's becoming very common that airlines provide different award availability to different partners - and also often provide more availability to their own.

Unfortunately there's no way for QF to access in these circumstances.

If you were to book 1 with QF points and the other with AA or BA, it's generally better to book the QF seat first.
I feared that might be the case.

It seems sort of illogical - this is for QR flights to Brisbane next week, where QF has 1xJ available each day the flight runs, and AA/BA have 2. Obviously there's plenty of availability and, at this short notice, surely they'd want to write of some of those vacant seats as award bookings.

Too bad.
 

Mattg

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2011
Messages
9,525
Flights
My Map
I thought it was a Oneworld standard that airlines had to provide the same availability that they give to any Oneworld partner to all of the other partners. Not sure how this works in practice, however, nor if it is enforced.

I guess another possibility is that AA/BA could be displaying phantom availability?

I wonder is @trippin_the_rift has any thoughts on this.
 

NM

Enthusiast
Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
16,256
Qantas
LT Gold
Virgin
Red
Flights
My Map
Perhaps this is an issue with "Point of Sale" where different availability is often shown based on the country in which the ticket will be issued. These variations in availability can apply to any ticket type and class, not just to awards. For example, you may be able to buy an I class discounted/sale business class fare if purchasing from the USA but not when purchasing from Australia.

I have experienced this earlier this year when seeking U-class business class awards AKL-BNE. On the day we want to travel, QF was not offering anything even via transit points. But I could use CX Asia Miles points to book 2 seats AKL-MEL-BNE in U. This was either a case of QF not not selling this as "married sectors, or a POS variation. Naturally I booked the CX Asia Miles award and then purchased a paid I class AKL-MEL and a QF FF award for MEL-BNE for the third traveller in our group (me).
 

Matt_01

Established Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
2,435
Qantas
Platinum 1
Virgin
Platinum
Flights
My Map
I thought it was a Oneworld standard that airlines had to provide the same availability that they give to any Oneworld partner to all of the other partners. Not sure how this works in practice, however, nor if it is enforced.

I guess another possibility is that AA/BA could be displaying phantom availability?

I wonder is @trippin_the_rift has any thoughts on this.
I am not sure exactly how it works but from experience I have seen greater reward availability with JL and QR when searching via BA over QF. In most cases it was only a difference of 1 seat e.g. JL - 2 seats available via QF and 3 via BA and QR was similar. I also think BA has closer ties with JL and QR, not sure of the rest of OW.
 
Last edited:

dlam

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
107
Maybe QF was allocated two seats and someone booked one of them?
i doubt it. The pattern goes on every day until the end of the month. 2 seats in AA/BA, 1 on QF.
The lady in the call centre told me that QR releases different award availability to different partners and lamented that we couldn’t just waitlist.
 
Get paid up to 25% in real cash from your everyday purchases from leading companies such as Virgin Australia, Booking.com, Woolworths, Coles, Apple, Microsoft and much more. Free to join and no catches!

Recommended by the Australian Frequent Flyer

dlam

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
107
Perhaps this is an issue with "Point of Sale" where different availability is often shown based on the country in which the ticket will be issued. These variations in availability can apply to any ticket type and class, not just to awards. For example, you may be able to buy an I class discounted/sale business class fare if purchasing from the USA but not when purchasing from Australia.

I have experienced this earlier this year when seeking U-class business class awards AKL-BNE. On the day we want to travel, QF was not offering anything even via transit points. But I could use CX Asia Miles points to book 2 seats AKL-MEL-BNE in U. This was either a case of QF not not selling this as "married sectors, or a POS variation. Naturally I booked the CX Asia Miles award and then purchased a paid I class AKL-MEL and a QF FF award for MEL-BNE for the third traveller in our group (me).
Interesting. I've just tried the search using a VPN to simulate purchasing form USA, Netherlands and France (I'm in the UK) but no luck ...

I wonder, like mattg, whether this is phantom availability?
I thought the same thing but, I did get the 1 J ticket that showed on QF put on hold for 24 hours. At that point the inventory on AA and BA went down from 2 to 1 ticket available. So the system seems to "talk" in real time.
 

NM

Enthusiast
Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
16,256
Qantas
LT Gold
Virgin
Red
Flights
My Map
Interesting. I've just tried the search using a VPN to simulate purchasing form USA, Netherlands and France (I'm in the UK) but no luck ...
I do not think that using a VPN is not going to change the point of sale for FF redemption. I expect all QFF redemption tickets are issued by QF the same country from a point of sale perspective, no matter where your browser session appears to be located. This will either be the country where the first flight in the itinerary departs (if QF has a ticketing presence there) or Australia. So changing your perceived location via a VPN will not make any difference to the "point of sale" as far as the fare sale is concerned.
 

RichardMEL

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
5,217
nice idea with the VPN but as NM says it's the point of origin of the flights/search in question, not the location from where it's being searched
 

trippin_the_rift

Established Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
3,818
<snip>

I wonder is @trippin_the_rift has any thoughts on this.
Consider the following......

What would happen when...

a member airline launches a direct attack on another member airline
and a member airline has control of the alliance voting powers via multiple entities
and a member controls the alliance power via people in key roles
and when there are no checks and balances to advocate for loyalty members at the top

what would happen if, left unchecked for 20 years - airlines were free to do whatever they wanted, and there was a secret underground war happening in the background?

Now consider how many oneworld airlines are relying on bailouts and how aggressively some are holding onto cash.
What if, an entire alliance was about to be enhanced because of power dynamics between airlines?
 

trippin_the_rift

Established Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
3,818
OP: If travel is for future travel like 4,5,6months++, don't book seats now. Wait for the capacity to increase and for the flurry of amazing deals which will hit the market.

Don't lock yourself into a carrier now at the max cost!
 

dlam

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
107
I wonder, like mattg, whether this is phantom availability?
OP: If travel is for future travel like 4,5,6months++, don't book seats now. Wait for the capacity to increase and for the flurry of amazing deals which will hit the market.

Don't lock yourself into a carrier now at the max cost!
no - it’s for travel on Monday - getting back to Oz. Normally I wouldn’t even countenance the possibility of getting 2 J fares, but they display every day on that route on BA and AA for the rest of the month. Just in QF they’re only making 1 available. Oh well, it’ll be good to get home finally, and arriving into BNE thus avoiding two quarantines.
 

MEL_Traveller

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
21,431
no - it’s for travel on Monday - getting back to Oz. Normally I wouldn’t even countenance the possibility of getting 2 J fares, but they display every day on that route on BA and AA for the rest of the month. Just in QF they’re only making 1 available. Oh well, it’ll be good to get home finally, and arriving into BNE thus avoiding two quarantines.
But can you actually book both seats on BA or AA? That's the point of phantom availability. There may only be one seat, despite two showing.
 

adenda

Intern
Joined
Feb 6, 2003
Messages
66
Flights
My Map
I thought it was a Oneworld standard that airlines had to provide the same availability that they give to any Oneworld partner to all of the other partners. Not sure how this works in practice, however, nor if it is enforced.

I guess another possibility is that AA/BA could be displaying phantom availability?

I wonder is @trippin_the_rift has any thoughts on this.
After having to cancel our J OW Classic Reward in April I'm now tenatively starting to investigate trying again for next year. Probably will largely duplicate our previous itinerary however availability for 2 J seats on QR915 (Adelaide to Doha) via QF website is zero for all of May 2021! I asked an agent to check via chat and they came up with the same result. The mystery is that the BA website is showing 4 J seats on almost all QR915 flights in May (a couple of days have 3 seats). Last year I used the BA site frequently to check availability and the QF site almost always showed same result so I'm mystified what's happening here.
I have read some other posters have had some luck by calling QF when this situation presents. Interested to know if that's the case or if anyone else is having similar issues with low or no QF reward availability. (I thought it was supposed to improve)
 

dlam

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
107
After having to cancel our J OW Classic Reward in April I'm now tenatively starting to investigate trying again for next year. Probably will largely duplicate our previous itinerary however availability for 2 J seats on QR915 (Adelaide to Doha) via QF website is zero for all of May 2021! I asked an agent to check via chat and they came up with the same result. The mystery is that the BA website is showing 4 J seats on almost all QR915 flights in May (a couple of days have 3 seats). Last year I used the BA site frequently to check availability and the QF site almost always showed same result so I'm mystified what's happening here.
I have read some other posters have had some luck by calling QF when this situation presents. Interested to know if that's the case or if anyone else is having similar issues with low or no QF reward availability. (I thought it was supposed to improve)
certainly didn’t work for me this week by calling up. It is a strange situation and the call centre operator explained that Qatar releases different award seats to different airlines.

luckily for us, Emirates J and F seats to BNE suddenly came up so we’ve pushed departure back two days and are pretty happy (though it ain’t the Q suite ...)
 

madrooster

Established Member
Joined
May 21, 2012
Messages
2,064
Qantas
Platinum
Virgin
Gold
As someone with access with Amadeus who handles award bookings regularly, I can confirm that QR does give less availability to QF for their award inventory.

I've seen and confirmed multiple scenarios where QR will give 4 seats to most other major oneworld carriers, but only 2 or 3 to QF. I have also seen cases where QR will give 3 to other oneworld carriers, but zero to QF.

The most common scenario as stated already, is -1 compared to BA/AA.

The availability that BA/AA sees, is confirmable. It's not phantom availability - I have confirmed this by actually selling the inventory repeatedly in every single scenario I have encountered by checking in the respective airline offices (not simply calling in and 'trusting' the call centre agent).
 

adenda

Intern
Joined
Feb 6, 2003
Messages
66
Flights
My Map
@madrooster thanks for your insight. Seems QR has tightened their availability for QF customers since last year as I had much less trouble then - could almost take my pick of departure days when looking at a similar time of year.
Anyway, do you think there's any prosepct in your experience of QR improving availability closer to the travel date (May 21)?
 

Community Statistics

Threads
86,274
Messages
2,077,568
Members
53,673
Latest member
Krys
Top