Dear <Insert Customer Name>, Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

[mannej]

A month after the OP I copped the same config on a MEL-SYD and complained. I got the same offensive template response which did not even address my request (ie refund my points paid for J). Got the social team on Twitter to escalate it and was told by a "manager" they consider this is a business class product so tough luck.

Talk about buyer beware.

This config is not the same as QF domestic J, the pitch, seat width and seat material are not the same and obviously the cabin config is 2-3-2. The seats were filthy and scuffed also.

EBD is currently the last 332 left in that configuration.

Not trying to stir, but I am not surprised that you did not get a refund of points for flying on that configuration on a MEL-SYD run.

 

[hutch]

EBD is currently the last 332 left in that configuration.

Not trying to stir, but I am not surprised that you did not get a refund of points for flying on that configuration on a MEL-SYD run.

Yep, i'm confused as to why there would be refund?

 

[JohnK]

Yep, i'm confused as to why there would be refund?

It is not a satisfactory business class product and if people knew that was going to be the configuration they would not put in an upgrade request.

 

[hutch]

It is not a satisfactory business class product and if people knew that was going to be the configuration they would not put in an upgrade request.

Fair enough. But it's still a lottery whether you get a nice A330... perhaps that is not well known and needs to be better emphasised.

 

[Virgin Bart]

It is not a satisfactory business class product and if people knew that was going to be the configuration they would not put in an upgrade request.

I went through a similar disappointing experience earlier this year and got all-but-no sympathy from people on this forum, which I found very surprising! Alas yesterday QF got back to me and said sorry but it's in the fine print. I'm still surprised they can offer a substitute that is not at all a comparable product, but I am on my own (which is fair enough, I guess).

 

[JohnK]

I went through a similar disappointing experience earlier this year and got all-but-no sympathy from people on this forum, which I found very surprising! Alas yesterday QF got back to me and said sorry but it's in the fine print. I'm still surprised they can offer a substitute that is not at all a comparable product, but I am on my own (which is fair enough, I guess).

You are not on your own and it isn't good enough. The same goes for economy. I choose a specific aircraft. I don't buy a seat only to get to destination.

If an airline gets the scheduling wrong then they need to provide adequate compensation. That compensation could be monetary or in the form of upgrade voucher. Great publicity to avoid these types of complaints on frequent flyer forums.

 

[hutch]

You are not on your own and it isn't good enough. The same goes for economy. I choose a specific aircraft. I don't buy a seat only to get to destination.

If an airline gets the scheduling wrong then they need to provide adequate compensation. That compensation could be monetary or in the form of upgrade voucher. Great publicity to avoid these types of complaints on frequent flyer forums.

I can't agree with you there. Airlines sell you a seat from point A to B... they differentiate themselves somewhat by providing seats/services etc and these factors influence some people's decision. But essentially you are a buying a ticket from A to B.

Is it really feasible to for any airline to promise a certain plane on a certain route when they sell seats 11 plus months out? So much can change in that time. And ultimately, the compensation provided would be coming from somewhere.

QF's issue is that they spend a lot of time highlighting the good side of the their product, and don't balance that out by highlighting there is still a lot of "poor" product out there. Some more transparency at booking time would help IMO. Yes, if I am booking an A330 on QF I know I may get an old plane, but that's because I spend more time looking at aviation related things than the average Joe. The average person probably sees the articles about QF's new A330's, books one and then gets lumped with a old plane.

 

[mannej]

It is not a satisfactory business class product and if people knew that was going to be the configuration they would not put in an upgrade request.

Not satisfactory for a SYD-MEL run? You are having a laugh aren't you? It is a very similar product to what is on the 737 fleet, hence why I believe that the refund was denied here, with or without the referral to the social media team.

 

[N860CR]

I can't agree with you there. Airlines sell you a seat from point A to B... they differentiate themselves somewhat by providing seats/services etc and these factors influence some people's decision. But essentially you are a buying a ticket from A to B.

Is it really feasible to for any airline to promise a certain plane on a certain route when they sell seats 11 plus months out? So much can change in that time. And ultimately, the compensation provided would be coming from somewhere.

QF's issue is that they spend a lot of time highlighting the good side of the their product, and don't balance that out by highlighting there is still a lot of "poor" product out there. Some more transparency at booking time would help IMO. Yes, if I am booking an A330 on QF I know I may get an old plane, but that's because I spend more time looking at aviation related things than the average Joe. The average person probably sees the articles about QF's new A330's, books one and then gets lumped with a old plane.

I really hate this argument and I guess the airlines have pushed it so hard that people have started to believe it.

They aren't selling "transport from a to b", they're selling a product. These products vary massively in cost and quality from discount economy up to full first.

To say you're only paying to get from a - b is no different to paying for a $10,000 curved SHD LED TV and having a 17" Sonic delivered. No different to ordering a Lexus and getting a Camry. If they achieve the same thing, then you should just be happy - of course not!

 

[hutch]

I really hate this argument and I guess the airlines have pushed it so hard that people have started to believe it.

They aren't selling "transport from a to b", they're selling a product. These products vary massively in cost and quality from discount economy up to full first.

To say you're only paying to get from a - b is no different to paying for a $10,000 curved SHD LED TV and having a 17" Sonic delivered. No different to ordering a Lexus and getting a Camry. If they achieve the same thing, then you should just be happy - of course not!

In reality, pretty sure most people go to a travel agent/online travel site and book a flight from A to B. There would be a fair few people out there that wouldn't know a thing about what a particular airline offers on board, until they are on board. Particularly in regards to International.

And when you buy your "airline product", the airline informs you that you are flying an particular aircraft. There is nothing in that transaction that promises you a certain product. The issue is that their marketing is so focused on the good stuff and it's still 50/50 whether you get that.

In relation to your example though, that would be like buying First Class and being sent to fly Economy. This is about buying Business class and given old Business.

 

[JohnK]

Not satisfactory for a SYD-MEL run? You are having a laugh aren't you? It is a very similar product to what is on the 737 fleet, hence why I believe that the refund was denied here, with or without the referral to the social media team.

You know I am not having a laugh.

I purchase a certain product to get to a destination. You cannot tell me that 737 business class SYD/MEL-PER is comparable to A330 business class? I know it isn't. The airline knows it isn't and is hiding in their terms and conditions. So if I booked the A330 it is not good enough that a 737 was substituted on that route. I should be compensated. Tough luck for the airline. Get it right next time.

Similarly lets say I have 23J for next weeks flight BNE-SYD on A330. If I choose to spend $100 and 3, 000 QFF points to upgrade to business class and it is substituted to a 737 then I want my money and points back. I was not going to upgrade had I known it would get substituted.

There are other examples. A330 economy compared to 747 and A380. How would you like to spend 15 hours in A330 economy when you had A380 economy booked 11 months ago?

Not sure why some people are saying it is Ok for these substitutions to happen without appropriate compensation. It is not OK.

 

[hutch]

You know I am not having a laugh.

I purchase a certain product to get to a destination. You cannot tell me that 737 business class SYD/MEL-PER is comparable to A330 business class? I know it isn't. The airline knows it isn't and is hiding in their terms and conditions. So if I booked the A330 it is not good enough that a 737 was substituted on that route. I should be compensated. Tough luck for the airline. Get it right next time.

Similarly lets say I have 23J for next weeks flight BNE-SYD on A330. If I choose to spend $100 and 3, 000 QFF points to upgrade to business class and it is substituted to a 737 then I want my money and points back. I was not going to upgrade had I known it would get substituted.

There are other examples. A330 economy compared to 747 and A380. How would you like to spend 15 hours in A330 economy when you had A380 economy booked 11 months ago?

Not sure why some people are saying it is Ok for these substitutions to happen without appropriate compensation. It is not OK.

You don't think it's ok. I understand that.

But a couple of points:

1. what if they just stopped telling you what plane was flying that route a 11 months out
2. compensation does not drop from the sky (hopefully neither do planes), they start compensating because the swapped an A380 to a 747 for every passenger, the money is coming from your fellow passengers.

 

[mannej]

You know I am not having a laugh.

I purchase a certain product to get to a destination. You cannot tell me that 737 business class SYD/MEL-PER is comparable to A330 business class? I know it isn't. The airline knows it isn't and is hiding in their terms and conditions. So if I booked the A330 it is not good enough that a 737 was substituted on that route. I should be compensated. Tough luck for the airline. Get it right next time.

Similarly lets say I have 23J for next weeks flight BNE-SYD on A330. If I choose to spend $100 and 3, 000 QFF points to upgrade to business class and it is substituted to a 737 then I want my money and points back. I was not going to upgrade had I known it would get substituted.

There are other examples. A330 economy compared to 747 and A380. How would you like to spend 15 hours in A330 economy when you had A380 economy booked 11 months ago?

Not sure why some people are saying it is Ok for these substitutions to happen without appropriate compensation. It is not OK.

JohnK, we are talking about a domestic leg where the 737 is the workhouse here, not a transcon or international run here. The product on EBD is comparable to the product on the 737's for such a run here, hence why I believe in this situation the member was never going to get a refund of points here, and your argument misses the mark considering that the 737 was never flown in this situation.

 

[incumbent]

what if they just stopped telling you what plane was flying that route a 11 months out

Exactly. Just because a certain type of plane was showing in the system at the time you booked it, doesn't mean you're guaranteed to it. And QF are quite upfront about saying that.

 

[JohnK]

I can't agree with you there. Airlines sell you a seat from point A to B... they differentiate themselves somewhat by providing seats/services etc and these factors influence some people's decision. But essentially you are a buying a ticket from A to B.

Is it really feasible to for any airline to promise a certain plane on a certain route when they sell seats 11 plus months out? So much can change in that time. And ultimately, the compensation provided would be coming from somewhere.

I am not sure I agree. We are all different.

I need to get back from BKK in August and Qantas has a one way airfare for ~AUD700 on the A330. It is 9.5 hours and I don't want to do it. What I want to do is book BKK-HKG on EK A380 and HKG-SYD on QF 747 (dont confuse this with QF A330 on HKG-SYD route as this is just as bad) all in economy but the day I want is not available and no interest in coming back 1-2 days earlier. But lets say I booked it this way and turn up to BKK and they say sorry we have aircraft scheduling issues and we will now put you on JQ to MEL and then to SYD. Are you saying no compensation likely? Why? It's not my fault they have aircraft scheduling issues. I would expect compensation.

And just to give you a little insight into what some people will do. I will more than likely book MH to KUL using my 2,000 MH miles + 6,000 Amex MR points. This is a 737 but is short flight. Then book KUL-SYD on EK 777 and MEL-SYD on QF. Sure the EK 777 is a worry but this airfare is only AUD500 and will earn Economy SCs and points.

 

[hutch]

I am not sure I agree. We are all different.

I need to get back from BKK in August and Qantas has a one way airfare for ~AUD700 on the A330. It is 9.5 hours and I don't want to do it. What I want to do is book BKK-HKG on EK A380 and HKG-SYD on QF 747 (dont confuse this with QF A330 on HKG-SYD route as this is just as bad) all in economy but the day I want is not available and no interest in coming back 1-2 days earlier. But lets say I booked it this way and turn up to BKK and they say sorry we have aircraft scheduling issues and we will now put you on JQ to MEL and then to SYD. Are you saying no compensation likely? Why? It's not my fault they have aircraft scheduling issues. I would expect compensation.

And just to give you a little insight into what some people will do. I will more than likely book MH to KUL using my 2,000 MH miles + 6,000 Amex MR points. This is a 737 but is short flight. Then book KUL-SYD on EK 777 and MEL-SYD on QF. Sure the EK 777 is a worry but this airfare is only AUD500 and will earn Economy SCs and points.

Yeah, there are diverse opinions out there and I don't expect everyone will agree on here. We are humans after all.

In your example, considering QF is open about explaining the difference between JQ and QF, I'd suggest you would have a case for compensation. I'd think that is reasonable.

On the other hand, if they put you on the QF flight from BKK to SYD and gave you the ORC I wouldn't consider that to be unreasonable.

There are many reasons why they have scheduling issues... you could reasonably argue maintenance issues are an airlines fault and if your plane is swapped for that reason, you should get compensated. But what about the weather? What about an emergency divert because a passenger has a medical condition?

I've had planes swaps before... particularly horrible one was for an A380 to an non-refurb'd 747 when the A380 was still pretty new to QF's fleet. I wasn't particularly happy. The thing that I would have like to have seen improved was for QF CSM to acknowledge the plane swap with a simple apology.

But we all have different expectations I guess. As stated, the one area I feel Qantas digs a hole for themselves is their marketing. I think if they promise to deliver a refurbish'd 747 on a route and they give you non-refurb, then they open themselves up to issues... but I haven't seen anything promising a refurb A330 on a domestic route.

 

[yohy?!]

@hutch operating unkempt aircraft in an LCC config is a little different just a simple equipment swap

 

[mannej]

@hutch operating unkempt aircraft in an LCC config is a little different just a simple equipment swap

Which ironically most of these aircraft started at QF flying domestically before they went over the JQ.

 

[Steelite]

I have also had issues with the customer care team replying back with a generic response, and the twitter team werent helpful in getting a proper response! Anyone know of ways to ensure l get a proper response rather than following up again through the online form?

 

[woodborer]

@hutch operating unkempt aircraft in an LCC config is a little different just a simple equipment swap

What needs to be kep in mind, is that until the round of upgrades began, Qamtas Dometsic Business class and Jetstar Business Class were basically the same thing from a seating perspective.