Compensation scheme coming to Australia?

[Scarlett]

But there's no real relationship between the existence of the penalty scheme and this outcome. All you need is a CEO who isn't Alan Joyce.

You seem to be implying that Alan Joyce is not a typical CEO. I would strongly suggest he is just a very normal example of one.

In my example (and yes n=1, so take it for what it is) the impression was that the airline and whomever their capitalist-model-following CEO is, were being incentivised. I can only compare what was occurring, to delays experienced with VA, JQ and to a lesser extent QF.

 

[CaptJCool]

One major airline said yes

Qantas to phase out passengers, in new plan to improve service — The Shovel

"This will slash wait times at airports and eliminate lost luggage completely"

theshovel.com.au

 

[jrfsp]

Biden administration proposing rule changes to compensate passengers for flight delays

The Biden administration's proposed flight delay compensation rule is the latest in a series of steps to improve travel and passenger protections.

www.usatoday.com

Will be coming to the US sooner or later

 

[kookaburra75]

Hopefully, if the ACCC keeps the pressure on, we might get to see an "AUS261" scheme sometime soon.

Pressure on Qantas, Virgin as ACCC’s Gina Cass-Gottlieb says airlines should be fined for cancelling flights

Regulator turns the screws on Qantas and Virgin as Gina Cass-Gottlieb calls for an independent agency to deal with consumer complaints against airlines.

www.afr.com

Qantas and Virgin given little incentive to cheapen air fares, watchdog warns

ACCC warns airline industry is at ‘critical juncture’ with a developing duopoly stunting competition

www.theguardian.com

 

[Seat0B]

Hopefully, if the ACCC keeps the pressure on, we might get to see an "AUS261" scheme sometime soon.

Pressure on Qantas, Virgin as ACCC’s Gina Cass-Gottlieb says airlines should be fined for cancelling flights

Regulator turns the screws on Qantas and Virgin as Gina Cass-Gottlieb calls for an independent agency to deal with consumer complaints against airlines.

www.afr.com

Qantas and Virgin given little incentive to cheapen air fares, watchdog warns

ACCC warns airline industry is at ‘critical juncture’ with a developing duopoly stunting competition

www.theguardian.com

I certainly hope so. It makes a mockery of our consumer legislation that the duopoly can treat customers so badly and then cry "terms of contract". It's not like pax have much of a choice about going to a different airline if they don't like the terms. Banks used to behave like this too, with their contracts allowing the bank to do whatever they wanted but the customer having absolutely no similar rights at all (eg the bank can call in your mortgage even if you are not in default at all), but seem to have moderated quite a bit after the impact of the "harsh and unconscionable" provisions (eg talk to us if you are experiencing financial hardship). I wonder why harsh and unconscionable provisions don't seem to apply to airlines? Or is it just that no one has taken that type of case? I'd be interested in a lawyer's view on this....

 

[Mwenenzi]

To me AU needs EU261 type legislation. And there is much traffic Australia <---> New Zealand, NZ needs complementary legislation at the same time.
Anyway the arrival time penalties would not happen that often given the hrs needed.

ACCC reports

Domestic airline competition monitoring reports

The ACCC monitors the prices, costs and profits of the major domestic airlines as part of a government direction which expires in December 2026. The government first directed the ACCC to do this in June 2020 under a direction which expired in June 2023.

www.accc.gov.au

Airline competition in Australia - June 2023 report

Twelfth report on the ACCC’s monitoring of Australian domestic air passenger transport services.

www.accc.gov.au

Is interesting reading (as are the older reports)
Including

Performance on routes to and from Sydney continues to be especially poor. In April 2023 the industry cancelled 9.2% of flights between Sydney and Melbourne, 8.8% of flights between Sydney and Canberra, and 5.7% of flights between Sydney and Brisbane. A third of all flights were delayed on routes connecting Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney.
Several factors can impact service reliability, including the capability of the airlines, airports, air traffic control as well as external factors such as the weather.

The airlines have reported that air traffic control staff absences have impacted reliability, particularly at Sydney Airport. 20 As the busiest and most connected hub, delays at Sydney Airport have flow on effects on other routes. Data published by Airservices Australia shows it was responsible for around a third of total ground delay hours at Sydney Airport in February. This improved to 6% in March and 4% in April. Airservices Australia data shows it was responsible for 65% of total ground delay hours at Brisbane Airport in April. 21

A lot of click bait headlines following publication. The ACCC report has a different emphasis.

For example the report states domestic fares continue to fall.
abc.net.au Qantas-Jetstar and Virgin airline 'duopoly' driving domestic flight prices up, ACCC report says

<snip>
Compensation proposal has merit: ACCC

The ACCC has called for measures to improve competition over the long-term, and said the federal government had "several policy options" to improve airline services for customers in the short-term.

"Some advocates have called for the introduction of specific consumer compensation entitlements for delayed or cancelled flights," the report notes. "While consultation would be required to assess the impacts of such a scheme on the market and consumers, the ACCC considers there is merit in the government further considering and consulting on this."

It also said there was a "clear need" to introduce a new system for resolving disputes between airlines and customers. The current Airline Customer Advocate was "ineffective" and should be replaced with an independent ombudsman which had the ability to make binding decisions, the report said.

Under consumer law, passengers are not entitled to any specific compensation if an airline fails to get them to their destination on time, although some companies will offer it in certain circumstances.

Industry group Airlines for Australia and New Zealand (A4ANZ) defended the airlines' performance, saying some of the factors that caused cancellations and delays were outside their control.

A4ANZ chief executive Alison Roberts warned policies to support passengers could have "unintended consequences", saying the cost of schemes overseas has pushed airfare prices higher.

"If the government wants to look at the one single thing it could do to improve competition in the aviation market more broadly, it would do well to also look at monopoly airports and their charges that make up a big chunk of the cost," Dr Roberts said.
<snip>

 

[Forg]

^ I like how the “several factors” affecting reliability/cancellations on routes in & out of Sydney don’t seem to include the biggest one … “there’s another flight in an hour so since this one’s a tad empty we’ll just bundle the pax onto the next one, an extra hour won’t hurt ‘em”

 

[BAM1748]

If airlines don't like it then it's needed.

 

[jakeseven7]

With VA2 and QF both having very patchy (understandably) recoveries from COVID-19 and VA2 and Jestar still struggling to recover in particular, I see why this has lit a fire under the issue from a general population interest.

However, with such a concentrated market I think we can very reasonably expect that we, the customers will be the ones who end up paying for any scheme.

So be careful what you wish for.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If airlines don't like it then it's needed.

Exactly!

I see the airlines are already saying that these schemes have led to higher airfares overseas. I would like to see evidence of that because Ryanair easyJet and we're there all have very low fares!

 

[BAM1748]

Exactly!

I see the airlines are already saying that these schemes have led to higher airfares overseas. I would like to see evidence of that because Ryanair easyJet and we're there all have very low fares!

Yes, fare increases because airlines are accountable for what they say they will deliver versus what they deliver. What ever your saying might be, The sky is falling, the theater is on fire.

According to airlines fares increase because of everyone else but not them.

 

[TheRealTMA]

If airlines don't like it then it's needed.

Absolutely. Perhaps if airlines stopped pandering to politicians with free CL memberships and pollies with non returnable handouts of public monies to prop up airline bonuses, the pollies might turn their heads to leglislation to support consumers! Then pigs might fly.

 

[jgm]

The Canadian scheme mightn't have weather, but it does have "safety". AC seems to claim every delay is a safety issue, & routinely offers CA$ 100-300 as a "one off" goodwill payment. You can take them to the tribunal, but with around a 2 year delay there, it's easier to accept the offer.

 

[BAM1748]

The Canadian scheme mightn't have weather, but it does have "safety". AC seems to claim every delay is a safety issue, & routinely offers CA$ 100-300 as a "one off" goodwill payment. You can take them to the tribunal, but with around a 2 year delay there, it's easier to accept the offer.

And they are getting 100 to 300 more than Aussie flyers get. Continuous improvement for consumers lets not wait for delayed perfection.

Bring it on.

 

[CMA222]

The T's and C's state the airlines do not guarantee their schedules and they are not part of the Contract of Carriage. This makes a mockery of having a schedule as the airlines do not actually have to do anything except get you to your destination 'eventually' despite everyone relying on the schedule when they book, and making complimentary arrangements based on the published schedule of the airline. If when they eventually do transport you it is not suitable you can cancel and get a voucher ! Introduce a AUS261 and make the airlines pay when they do not meet their obligations. QF operates under the UK and USA compensation schemes already and if they do not like it they have the option of not operating. It's about time something happened to remove the imbalance between the rights of the airlines and the passengers. But wait and see how the pollies delay and procrastinate while the airlines lobby to kill it off.

 

[Mattg]

Something which I don’t think gets enough coverage with this scheme is how much it incentivises the airlines to look after their passengers and to make best efforts to get people on their way quickly in the event of delays.

My example from last week was with LX flying within Europe:
- Boarded a flight on time or just a little late.
- Remote stand boarding so use of busses added a little extra delay.
- Late afternoon flight so not a quick taxi.
- Issue with aircraft became apparent when instead of lining up on the runway we taxied on to it and kept rolling at taxi speed. Then took the first exit and returned to the remote stand.
- Aircraft problem (unspecified) advised by the flight crew. Engineers tried to assist, but about the one hour late mark we were told on board that the aircraft was u/s and they’d get us a new one. Told to watch monitors for new gate and boarding time. Water bottles handed out to all onboard during the maintenance process.
- Deplaned by busses back to the terminal.
- My family and I returned to the very nice ZRH LX lounge and settled back in. Within ten minutes there was an email for food/drink vouchers and an extensive list of terminal restaurants/cafes they could be used in. Good for those who didn’t have lounge access; we didn’t use or need ours.
- At the two hour delay mark, new flight departure time (planned to be 2hr:40min late) and gate appeared on monitors. Boarding flashed up shortly after that.
View attachment 328232
- Bussed to different aircraft sitting in front of a maintenance hanger and smelling like it had just been pushed out of said hanger!
- Taxi and takeoff was pretty close to the new advised departure time.
- We landed and arrived 2:48 late, which for those playing along at home is 12 minutes before LX would have liable to pay everyone on board €250.
- Throughout the process we were well informed and had access to food and drinks. There seemed to be an urgency to minimise the delay. Or maybe it was just particular Swiss efficiency?

Yes the delay was annoying, but seemed well handled. LX appeared incentivised to do the right thing and minimise problems for pax.

Now, my wife’s suitcase didn’t reappear at the other end (and was not located for three days - and was only returned to us back at home last night after 8 days total) and we missed the last train and had to take an expensive taxi instead, but those are issues for another post…

I had a long delay flying in Canada last year, where airlines are also required to pay compensation for delays of more than 3 hours within their control. We arrived about 2 hours, 55 minutes late.

I’m quite sure they wouldn’t have made such an effort to minimise the delay to under 3 hours if not for that law!

 

[wandering_fred]

^ I like how the “several factors” affecting reliability/cancellations on routes in & out of Sydney don’t seem to include the biggest one … “there’s another flight in an hour so since this one’s a tad empty we’ll just bundle the pax onto the next one, an extra hour won’t hurt ‘em”

Under the European rules I believe a 3 hour delay is required before the passenger is eligible for paid compensation. So the current flight planning policies SYD/CBR/MEL would unlikely to change.
Just how you do your wandering
Fred

 

[Mattg]

I once had an interesting conversation with someone who used to work for an Australian airline, and now works for a European airline.

Based on this person’s real-world experience, European airlines absolutely do make more of an effort to ensure delays and cancellations are minimised, and flights aren’t (as) oversold, in order to avoid having to pay compensation. Consumers in Europe are far better off due to EU261.

 

[Forg]

With VA2 and QF both having very patchy (understandably) recoveries from COVID-19 and VA2 and Jestar still struggling to recover in particular, I see why this has lit a fire under the issue from a general population interest.

However, with such a concentrated market I think we can very reasonably expect that we, the customers will be the ones who end up paying for any scheme.

So be careful what you wish for.

While this is all true & possible, they’re making moulah hand-over-fist at the moment; if a bit of competition gets them to keep the prices down & some laws encourage them not to cancel emptyish flights then I think it’s a win. Thinking about it, if I had a 9am $100-ish flight from Hobart to Sydney and instead it cost $110 to avoid having to wait for 3pm, I’d prefer to pay the extra $10 …

 

[jakeseven7]

Thinking about it, if I had a 9am $100-ish flight from Hobart to Sydney and instead it cost $110 to avoid having to wait for 3pm, I’d prefer to pay the extra $10 …

If only it was that simple of course