Circle Pacific (or equivalent) pricing

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Himeno

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Need to factor in the positioning flights ex-Aus to and from HKG also.
For the last few years, I've been getting ex-JP DONE3's with stops in Asia, North America and Europe with a DAS13 to get me from CBR-TYO and back and some other stops in Asia.
 

SeatBackForward

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For the last few years, I've been getting ex-JP DONE3's with stops in Asia, North America and Europe with a DAS13 to get me from CBR-TYO and back and some other stops in Asia.

So using the two fares, you juggle your positioning flights around? I assume that means you can lock dates for travel in quite far in advance?
 

Himeno

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I assume that means you can lock dates for travel in quite far in advance?
Not really. It depends what's happening with work and when I can get leave. Last year, my tickets were issued 2-3 weeks ahead of departure (but that also had some issues related to getting a new passport and processing name changes across many things).

I tend to start planning for my main holiday each year about a month after getting home from the last and have 2 or 3 options as to when to go. Once it's narrowed down to which dates are more likely to be approved for leave, it's normally all locked in about 6-8 weeks ahead.
 

SeatBackForward

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Not really. It depends what's happening with work and when I can get leave. Last year, my tickets were issued 2-3 weeks ahead of departure (but that also had some issues related to getting a new passport and processing name changes across many things).

I tend to start planning for my main holiday each year about a month after getting home from the last and have 2 or 3 options as to when to go. Once it's narrowed down to which dates are more likely to be approved for leave, it's normally all locked in about 6-8 weeks ahead.

Interesting, I can just picture two wheels going around and connecting at two points with dates showing your positioning flights. Thanks for the advice.
 

SeatBackForward

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Using ExpertFlyer, my possible itinerary of

HKG-YYZ-DFW-SYD-HKG= 22,169 miles
HKG-YYZ-LAX-SYD-HKG = 22,059 miles

Would either of the above sneak into a Circle Pacific 22 fare?, its a big stump up to get a 26 to be a few miles over.
 

docjames

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Using ExpertFlyer, my possible itinerary of

HKG-YYZ-DFW-SYD-HKG= 22,169 miles
HKG-YYZ-LAX-SYD-HKG = 22,059 miles

Would either of the above sneak into a Circle Pacific 22 fare?, its a big stump up to get a 26 to be a few miles over.

You'll need to note whether expertflyer is using published (by the airline) distances or indeed gc distances.

If the latter, you'll need to know the former.

How does HKG-YYZ-SFO-SYD-HKG distance count out? May be an option (depending on planned date of travel).
 

SeatBackForward

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You'll need to note whether expertflyer is using published (by the airline) distances or indeed gc distances.

If the latter, you'll need to know the former.

How does HKG-YYZ-SFO-SYD-HKG distance count out? May be an option (depending on planned date of travel).

It depends on how the issuing airline calculates distances.

Via SFO comes to 22,075 using Expertflyers calculator.
Via DFW comes to 22,167 using www.gcmap.com


So in the case of a xIRC22/26 fare, which airlines calculator do you use? the issuing airline? in which case the above example would be CX - I don't know how to calculate their mile on the YYZ-DFW-SYD sectors.
 

docjames

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Going back through my QF statements, under the old (distance-based) points earning, SYD-LAX was 7491 base points. So i assume that's miles (gcmap shows 7488 fwiw).

What does SYD-LAX vv come up as in expertflyer?

You could see if others here have "base" mileages available for your sectors?

Mileage monkey used to be a very accurate tool for this sort of thing.
 

docjames

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Is it bookable online? Where were you planning on ticketing?

If using a TA just give them your preferred routing and then book.
 

SeatBackForward

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Going back through my QF statements, under the old (distance-based) points earning, SYD-LAX was 7491 base points. So i assume that's miles (gcmap shows 7488 fwiw).

What does SYD-LAX vv come up as in expertflyer?

You could see if others here have "base" mileages available for your sectors?

Mileage monkey used to be a very accurate tool for this sort of thing.

Expertflyer puts SYD-LAX at 7495miles.

The question I suppose is who's mileage to use, as each carrier may have different values, and unsure how they'd calculate mileage on sectors that they don't fly.
 

SeatBackForward

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Is it bookable online? Where were you planning on ticketing?

If using a TA just give them your preferred routing and then book.

I don't believe its bookable online, and of course trying to book it out of Hong Kong is making it that much more difficult. I gave one agent my routing, they returned a price three times the DIRC22 price as they must have priced each sector individually. I canu nderstand why it might be hard to find an agent who knows how these things work.
 

docjames

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I had a play in matrix and it was pricing at A22k (HK127k) but seemed to want to push onto UA on the LAX-SYD leg. That may be part of the issue (if the agent is struggling to combine CX and QF)?
 

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I had a play in matrix and it was pricing at A22k (HK127k) but seemed to want to push onto UA on the LAX-SYD leg. That may be part of the issue (if the agent is struggling to combine CX and QF)?

Yes the agent came back with a price close to HKD $100k, they may not know that there is a fare basis that can be used. I could book it through QF here in Australia and it'll come to about $11k, but out of Hong Kong it'll be closer to $7.5k
 

docjames

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Wonder if a (?skype) call to Cathay HK booking office would be worth a shot - at least to get clarity on distances etc?
 
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madrooster

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Using ExpertFlyer, my possible itinerary of

HKG-YYZ-DFW-SYD-HKG= 22,169 miles
HKG-YYZ-LAX-SYD-HKG = 22,059 miles

Would either of the above sneak into a Circle Pacific 22 fare?, its a big stump up to get a 26 to be a few miles over.

These distances that you have are the correct GDS calculated distances, which is what is used for ticketing purposes.

The below is from Amadeus. EF uses Sabre from what I gather...

Code:
>fqmHKGYYZDFWSYDHKG
FQM   HKG   YTO   DFW   SYD   HKG


CTY   DC   TPM   cough   MPM  DC LVL  <HGL  >LWL   25M  XTRA
HKG 3
YTO 1 PA  7809  7809
DFW 1 US  1180  8989
SYD 3 PA  8585 17574
HKG 3 EH  4595 [b]22169[/b]

Code:
>fqmHKGYYZLAXSYDHKG
FQM   HKG   YTO   LAX   SYD   HKG


CTY   DC   TPM   cough   MPM  DC LVL  <HGL  >LWL   25M  XTRA
HKG 3
YTO 1 PA  7809  7809
LAX 1 US  2160  9969
SYD 3 PA  7495 17464
HKG 3 EH  4595 [b]22059[/b]

The question I suppose is who's mileage to use, as each carrier may have different values, and unsure how they'd calculate mileage on sectors that they don't fly.

Ticketed mileage is standardised throughout the GDSes generally.
 

SeatBackForward

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These distances that you have are the correct GDS calculated distances, which is what is used for ticketing purposes.

On that basis, would the above routing require a DCIR26 or would it sneak into a 22? I can't think of any possible shortening to essentially get to YYZ from SYD via HKG.
 

madrooster

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On that basis, would the above routing require a DCIR26 or would it sneak into a 22? I can't think of any possible shortening to essentially get to YYZ from SYD via HKG.

The MPM is exactly that - you can't exceed 22000, down to the mile.

From the fare rules:

Code:
FL.FLT APPLICATION


         NOTE -
          THE TOTAL JOURNEY MUST NOT EXCEED AN MPM OF -
            -
            ACIR22/DCIR22/LCIR22       22000
            ACIR26/DCIR26/LCIR26       26000
            ACIR29SA/DCIR29SA/LCIR29SA 29000
            -
            SURCHARGE TABLES ARE NOT PERMITTED
            -
            NOT EXCEED A TOTAL OF 16 SEGMENTS INCLUDING
            SURFACE SEGMENTS BETWEEN ANY 2 AIRPORTS.

Consider swapping SYD for BNE perhaps as your AU entry/exit point? That is below 22000.
 

wandering_fred

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If you are unsure how the airline will calculate mileage, perhaps it would be worthwhile to attempt to book the same routing - but starting exAustralia. The worst the TA/call center person could say is that it is over 22K and prices as $xx_X, and your reply is - Oh I didn't expect that , I'll think about it...

Happy wandering

Fred

PS A good reason to have a friendly working relationship with a TA (in every port)
 
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