Buying Air Canada Aeroplan points

[burmans]

I want to go A to B. The airline(s) prices it as $X. Whether of not you think its worth it, that's the cost. If I had no points, I'd have to pay that. As an alternative, I can earn or buy points and redeem for the same flight. So I've saved $X-(cost of points). The actual 'worth' of the flight doesn't matter to me - I had to do it and I got it much cheaper by buying and using the points.

So all you have done is provided on example where you have decided it’s worth it to buy points.

But as the saying goes, one swallow doesn’t make a summer. I’m sure everyone can supply many more examples where they have decided they don’t want to pay that much. If anything you’ve proved my point, in this one circumstance you are prepared to pay that cost, it’s a bit extreme to extrapolate this to mean you’ll alway do so.

 

[RooFlyer]

I’ve yet to meet a flight where there aren’t options. Different airlines, different classes of travel, options to reposition, pay cash or points, or in some cases cash and points, change my dates slightly!

But as the saying goes, one swallow doesn’t make a summer. I’m sure everyone can supply many more examples where they have decided they don’t want to pay that much.

Of course! But then they don't take that flight.

I see how we are at cross purposes. You are talking about the absolute cost of getting to a destination, one way or another, in any class, on any type of carrier, at some time etc. I've been talking about the value of buying points for a particular flight Vs the cash cost.

I'll take a good value direct flight in business on the day I want by purchased points Vs faffing around with all the other combinations, any day.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Of course! But then they don't take that flight.

I see how we are at cross purposes. You are talking about the absolute cost of getting to a destination, one way or another, in any class, on any type of carrier, at some time etc. I've been talking about the value of buying points for a particular flight Vs the cash cost.

I'll take a good value direct flight in business on the day I want by purchased points Vs faffing around with all the other combinations, any day.

Yes, i suspected the two conversations were at cross purposes. But you’ve summed it up!

Personally I ‘value’ a return to Europe from AU at around $4500… because that’s what I can get it for on Aeroplan. If SQ/QF/CX want $10k, I can’t see the advantage simply because there’s one less stop than using Aeroplan.

 

[Matty F]

I'm trying to understand the point being made here

You're saying your own value of a product, ie. what you value the flight to be yourself - matches exactly what the airline has priced that product at, or how much you can get it on points... no exception?

I'm sorry, but it's not making any sense to me. When purchasing anything, have you never once said "I'm not paying that, it's not worth it" or "I'd rather spend that money on something else of higher value to me" ie... how much you're willing to pay, is LESS than what the seller is asking?

Using an example - an airline is offering a flight at $10,000 cash, and you manage to get the same booking for $5,000 worth of points. You're trying to tell me that you will unequivocally say you're getting $5,000 (or is it $10,000) worth of value?

Where is your intrinsic valuing model, if you're just naively using the values set by the airline? Do you honestly believe in a room full of people every single one of them will agree that you just got $5k-$10k worth of value?

You've now spent $5,000. Were there not other things you could have spent that cash on? Could you have taken the same flight in economy, and spent the money on a nice hotel? Could you have changed dates for a cheaper flight, and put the savings to good use elsewhere?

Or are you sitting on such large amounts of wealth that money has lost all meaning to you?

One thing that is quite clear by now - you guys are an airline's dream customer

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You've now spent $5,000. Were there not other things you could have spent that cash on? Could you have taken the same flight in economy, and spent the money on a nice hotel? Could you have changed dates for a cheaper flight, and put the savings to good use elsewhere?

Every product or service has an intrinsic price… materials plus labour. Value is in the eye of the beholder… how much profit are you willing to give someone over and above the cost to produce it?

Personally I try and avoid an economy trip to europe, so the baseline is flat bed. I’m willing to fork out $4500 to europe, but get to $10k and that’s the company taking advantage of me. Especially when the fare out of asia, just a few hours away, is only $3500.

And I’d get business class *as well as* the nice hotel. If that’s what you want.

My own yardstick… value = a product that takes more time to consume or enjoy it than I spent to earn it

 

[Bbjai]

I agree with Mel traveller - I don’t mind paying up for points on bonus schemes if it means I get business flights for a lot cheaper. Especially if it’s Europe long haul. But I can’t find the flights on points for a family of 4 so rarely spend the $!

 

[RooFlyer]

I'm trying to understand the point being made here

Let me try to answer your many questions. Again, I think we may be at cross-purposes.

You're saying your own value of a product, ie. what you value the flight to be yourself - matches exactly what the airline has priced that product at, or how much you can get it on points... no exception?

Not really. I'm saying I want to take that flight. I try to get it at the best value - either cheapest cash outlay or most pleasant experience for myself (or both), given I'll have to pay something for that flight.

Spoiler: Others can skip this - but more questions answered

I'm sorry, but it's not making any sense to me. When purchasing anything, have you never once said "I'm not paying that, it's not worth it" or "I'd rather spend that money on something else of higher value to me" ie... how much you're willing to pay, is LESS than what the seller is asking?

Sure I've said those things. In fact I've just cancelled a cruise I've paid a deposit on as I've decided the money is better spent on a different trip. But if I want to take that flight, I'll have to stump up something, and I look for the best value from the choices available.

Using an example - an airline is offering a flight at $10,000 cash, and you manage to get the same booking for $5,000 worth of points. You're trying to tell me that you will unequivocally say you're getting $5,000 (or is it $10,000) worth of value?

No. I'm saying by using purchased points on the flight I want to take, I'm saving $5000 over what I'd have to pay otherwise.

Where is your intrinsic valuing model, if you're just naively using the values set by the airline? Do you honestly believe in a room full of people every single one of them will agree that you just got $5k-$10k worth of value?

DCF? But seriously, I don't believe I've ever assigned my thoughts to 'a room full of people' . You seem to be stuck on whether a particular flight is 'worth' what the airline asks. I'm arguing no matter what they are asking, I want to take that flight and I look for the best value. Often using purchased points gets me on that flight for less money.

You've now spent $5,000. Were there not other things you could have spent that cash on? Could you have taken the same flight in economy, and spent the money on a nice hotel? Could you have changed dates for a cheaper flight, and put the savings to good use elsewhere?

Well, yes, but I want to take that flight. Yes, I could have gone in economy, and I could have used points for that too. I could change dates around, but I want to take that flight.

One thing that is quite clear by now - you guys are an airline's dream customer

Because I fly a lot, possibly, but since I'm often flying for half the price they are asking, I doubt it.

_________

To illustrate, let me tell you what I'm doing right now. Next year, I'm on two cruises. The first ends in Glasgow and the next starts in Athens a week later. I want to spend time in Paris and Amsterdam in between so I want to maximise my time on the ground and I can't afford being delayed into Athens, so I book that flight the day before.

I've booked GLA-xLHR-CDG on BA using my Avios. I bought the Avios a while ago on subscription, so I can't remember exactly what I paid for them, but using the current subscription price, I'm paying about 2/3 of what I would if I paid cash. I could take several trains, but the cost of that in business is about the same as flying. I choose not to go economy, sorry. I could take other flights but they consume too much time and wouldn't save anything.

Train Paris to Amsterdam

AMS-ATH I'm looking at direct flights in business using my Virgin Atlantic points on KLM or my Aereoplan points on Aegean or my SQ points, or my Qantas points using ... some indirect options they're offering, and they are expensive, so I'm not really looking at them. Using SQ points is quite cheap, but its via Rome and arrives after midnight and I'm not into that. So probably going to use my VA points but I'll wait a bit as not options are in range yet.

So you see? It doesn't matter what I think the flights are worth, because of my particular trip, I need to take some pretty constrained flights, route and time-wise, and using my purchased points I can take these for (much) less than purchasing the full fare. Good value.

Bottom line: I don't care about some theory of the dismal science - its what I think is the best value, for me, in my circumstances and for what I want to achieve. And I think I'll end this part of the discussion, here.

And I’d get business class *as well as* the nice hotel. If that’s what you want.

Wot he said.

 

[Matty F]

I agree with Mel traveller - I don’t mind paying up for points on bonus schemes if it means I get business flights for a lot cheaper. Especially if it’s Europe long haul. But I can’t find the flights on points for a family of 4 so rarely spend the $!

If buying with points is your only criteria

There are currently more than 4 business class tickets on Turkish Airlines, Sydney-Istanbul, August 4th

Each costs 210,000 points = 840,000 points for the whole family

You can buy miles for 30 USD per 1,000

840,000 / 1,000 * $30 = $25,200 USD

Which works out to be approximately $36,000 AUD using today's currency conversion rates

If buying with points is your only criteria - why haven't you booked these flights yet?

Oh btw, that's only the leg over. Double the amount if you think you might want the same level of comfort flying home

 

[Matty F]

I'm saying by using purchased points on the flight I want to take, I'm saving $5000 over what I'd have to pay otherwise.

Incorrect.

 

[RooFlyer]

You can buy miles for 30 USD per 1,000

Buying miles off the shelf is terrible value - as you show. Most of us will only buy points/miles when there is a bonus offer on - Aeroplan now has a bonus of 90-110% (as you noted up-thread).

Incorrect.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Incorrect.

Not if rooflyer has to take a specific flight and has no options.

Then it’s a case of looking how to pay for that flight as cheaply as possible. Could be points, could be cash.

Is rooflyer getting value overall? no, because that flight is the only option.

Is rooflyer getting value through the use of points, absolutely, because it’s halved the cost.

Agree on most cases people will have a bit ore flexibility in terms of seeking out cheaper flights. But that’s not the case in this example.

 

[anat0l]

Looks like for the latest promo I got 110% but only if I purchase 90k points or more (basically need to spend about AUD 3500 at a minimum).

In theory, you could be an instant points millionaire if you max out the promo, but it'll set you back around AUD 19000.

Minimum bonus is 55% for over 5k points purchased; 75% for over 30k points purchased.