Brisbane to get parallel runway

[markis10]

Aircraft movements is one metric, but the number of passengers moved matters more from the sense of overall economic activity. ATC at BNE must be a challenging task.

Given this thread is about adding an extra runway, I would suggest movements are a major indicator, especially since passenger data is based on RPT traffic only.

Suggesting passengers numbers (RPT) are good indicator of economics is somewhat ill informed and naive, considering Brisbane is home to quite a FIFO airlines who passengers are not counted yet probably account for significant economic status.

Here's a typical Tuesday for the smaller operators as reported on Jetspotters:
DEP 0625 Skytrans to EMD D8
DEP 0350 Skytrans to Charleville D8
QQ 880 BNE-YTEE F100 0720
B200 BNE-EMD 0620
B1900 Airlink BNE-MOURA 0730
gam air do228 0700 bne-cca
gam air do 228 0750 bne-cca
PC12 bne-ARgyle 0830
pa-31 bne-twb 0800
gam air do 228 bne-cca 1055
Skytrans 1041 1115 cns
B1900 Airlink BNE-PPP 1215
PA-31 dep twb at 1330
gam air do 228 dep 1445
gam air do 228 dep 1500
b200 bne-middlemount 1445
pa-31 moree 1500
pc12 bne-warwick 1500
pc12 bne-argyle 1530
b200 bne cns 1530
Pelair sf340 BNE-EMD 1700
B200 BNE-TWB 19100

Throw in Alliance F100s, a couple of Virgin flights, Jetgo and AdaGold and it starts to get busy, add to that a A340 doing a defence charter, all not in the numbers, and you can see how busy it gets, just look at the last two days of Alliance's charters:

Date/Time Operator Mode-S Regist Type Callsign From To First Alt Last Alt
11-Oct-13 19:38 7C1C70 VH-FWI F100 UTY2419 Emerald Brisbane 34375 1075
11-Oct-13 18:17 7C7799 VH-XWR F100 UTY2415 Emerald Brisbane 20275 475
11-Oct-13 17:19 7C1C70 VH-FWI F100 UTY2418 Brisbane Emerald 1750 34000
11-Oct-13 16:00 7C7798 VH-XWQ F100 UTY713 Cloncurry Brisbane 29775 425
11-Oct-13 15:59 7C1C70 VH-FWI F100 UTY2367 Rockhampton Brisbane 475
11-Oct-13 15:19 7C7799 VH-XWR F100 UTY2414 Brisbane Emerald 975 32000
11-Oct-13 13:51 7C1C70 VH-FWI F100 UTY2366 Brisbane Rockhampton 825 24850
11-Oct-13 12:12 7C1C70 VH-FWI F100 UTY2515 Mackay Brisbane 29650 525
11-Oct-13 12:10 7C7799 VH-XWR F100 UTY2405 Emerald Brisbane 28075 425
11-Oct-13 11:51 7C7795 VH-XWN F100 UTY717 Cloncurry Brisbane 31625 425
11-Oct-13 09:45 7C7799 VH-XWR F100 UTY2404 Brisbane Emerald 675 34000
11-Oct-13 09:35 7C1C70 VH-FWI F100 UTY2514 Brisbane Mackay 600 34000
11-Oct-13 09:04 7C779B VH-XWT F100 UTY712 Brisbane Cloncurry 525 34000
11-Oct-13 08:22 7C7799 VH-XWR F100 UTY2401 Emerald Brisbane 400
11-Oct-13 08:04 7C1C70 VH-FWI F100 UTY2511 Mackay Brisbane 34875 375
11-Oct-13 07:05 7C7795 VH-XWN F100 UTY716 Brisbane Cloncurry 425 32000
11-Oct-13 05:59 7C7799 VH-XWR F100 UTY2400 Brisbane Emerald 375 34000
10-Oct-13 21:24 7C779B VH-XWT F100 UTY881 Emerald Brisbane 26875 475
10-Oct-13 19:31 7C7799 VH-XWR F100 UTY2419 Emerald Brisbane 33975 375
10-Oct-13 18:31 7C1C70 VH-FWI F100 UTY2520 Brisbane Mackay 600 34000
10-Oct-13 17:22 7C7799 VH-XWR F100 UTY2418 Brisbane Emerald 1025 34000
10-Oct-13 16:05 7C1C70 VH-FWI F100 UTY2367 Rockhampton Brisbane 35000 400
10-Oct-13 15:47 7C7799 VH-XWR F100 UTY2413 Emerald Brisbane 35000 350
10-Oct-13 13:52 7C1C70 VH-FWI F100 UTY2366 Brisbane Rockhampton 1075 33250
10-Oct-13 13:25 7C7799 VH-XWR F100 UTY2412 Brisbane Emerald 34000
10-Oct-13 12:21 7C1C70 VH-FWI F100 UTY2405 Emerald Brisbane 275
10-Oct-13 12:14 7C7799 VH-XWR F100 UTY2515 Mackay Brisbane 26250 300
10-Oct-13 10:17 7C1C70 VH-FWI F100 UTY2404 Brisbane Emerald 325 34000
10-Oct-13 09:36 7C7799 VH-XWR F100 UTY2514 Brisbane Mackay 28475
10-Oct-13 09:05 7C1C70 VH-FWI F100 UTY662 Emerald Brisbane 31000 200
10-Oct-13 08:30 7C7798 VH-XWQ F100 UTY880 Brisbane YTEE 32000
10-Oct-13 08:03 7C7799 VH-XWR F100 UTY664 Gladstone Brisbane 24625 150
10-Oct-13 06:09 7C1C70 VH-FWI F100 UTY661 Brisbane Emerald 34000
10-Oct-13 05:54 7C7799 VH-XWR F100 UTY663 Brisbane Gladstone 800 27525

 

[Melburnian1]

markis10, are there any particularly tricky construction challenges for the new BNE runway during the period to 2020 when it may (should) open, or will the huge amount of preplanning and the usual design work mean that it is likely to proceed very smoothly (Acts of God excepted) and open somewhat in advance of the mooted date (i.e. a 'conservative' construction timetable has been publicised)?

While not wanting to go too OT again, RPT is the measure used by BITRE (although that agency always mentions charter traffic for FIFO workers, which PER not BNE dominates). I doubt that it would like to be called 'ill informed and naive!' The slowdown in coal mining would be highly likely to mean a reduction in these sort of non-RPT movements.

 

[markis10]

markis10, are there any particularly tricky construction challenges for the new BNE runway during the period to 2020 when it may (should) open, or will the huge amount of preplanning and the usual design work mean that it is likely to proceed very smoothly (Acts of God excepted) and open somewhat in advance of the mooted date (i.e. a 'conservative' construction timetable has been publicised)?

I am not an engineer so I have no idea.

 

[anat0l]

are there any particularly tricky construction challenges for the new BNE runway during the period to 2020 when it may (should) open

Marsh.......

 

[markis10]

While not wanting to go too OT again, RPT is the measure used by BITRE (although that agency always mentions charter traffic for FIFO workers, which PER not BNE dominates). I doubt that it would like to be called 'ill informed and naive!' The slowdown in coal mining would be highly likely to mean a reduction in these sort of non-RPT movements.

BITRE use RPT traffic because thats the only data they can get, nowhere do they refer to aircraft passenger movements from their data as an economic indicator, which is what you have been doing, given it lacks the dimension of other significant factors your assertions are very much ill-informed. Considering the three biggest mining projects in terms of people are not coal related and more aircraft are being added to the BNE fleet, you will find FIFO activity is increasing. Brisbane had its greatest ever week of movements LAST week, 20 F100 flights a day alone, that's 2000 missing from the picture in one airline on one day.

 

[amaroo]

markis10, are there any particularly tricky construction challenges for the new BNE runway during the period to 2020 when it may (should) open, or will the huge amount of preplanning and the usual design work mean that it is likely to proceed very smoothly (Acts of God excepted) and open somewhat in advance of the mooted date (i.e. a 'conservative' construction timetable has been publicised)?

Unions......

 

[Melburnian1]

very funny amaroo, but also sadly quite true. Union members are a small percentage of the Australian workforce but they are concentrated in critical sectors such as construction.

markis10. this is what BITRE recently said about fixed wing charters in Australia in a recent month:

'Fixed-wing charter operators carried over 225 thousand passengers in July 2013, an
increase of 17.1 per cent on July 2012. More than one third of all charter passengers in
Australia took flights either to or from Perth Airport.'

Pretty small compared to RPT movements, unless there are significant movements of FIFO employees by other than fixed-wing aircraft.

 

[Hvr]

Unions......

very funny amaroo, but also sadly quite true. Union members are a small percentage of the Australian workforce but they are concentrated in critical sectors such as construction.
<snip>

What about construction companies allegedly involved in corrupt activities? At least there are police and regulatory investigations into alleged union corruption. Nothing seems to be getting done about the companies allegedly involved.

 

[markis10]

very funny amaroo, but also sadly quite true. Union members are a small percentage of the Australian workforce but they are concentrated in critical sectors such as construction.

markis10. this is what BITRE recently said about fixed wing charters in Australia in a recent month:

'Fixed-wing charter operators carried over 225 thousand passengers in July 2013, an
increase of 17.1 per cent on July 2012. More than one third of all charter passengers in
Australia took flights either to or from Perth Airport.'

Pretty small compared to RPT movements, unless there are significant movements of FIFO employees by other than fixed-wing aircraft.

FIFO traffic accounts for 10-15% of all Brisbane traffic, hardly "pretty small", to assert BNE has had anaemic economic growth based on RPT traffic data alone is a joke, lets look at it from the airports point of view as a novel concept: "Brisbane Airport Corporation has said "unprecedented resource industry activity" is a major contributor to the 80 extra flights a day in the past year.

http://www.bne.com.au/news/bne-passenger-numbers-continue-grow

 

[whatmeworry]

Unions......

Funny there are unions down south, yet MEL keeps expanding and expanding.

Only problem MEL has, is no there is no political will to build a train to the Airport.

 

[mono88]

Funny there are unions down south, yet MEL keeps expanding and expanding.

Only problem MEL has, is no there is no political will to build a train to the Airport.

A bit OT but,
What do you mean by expanding and expanding? Is that like the Big Bang theory of the Universe?

 

[samh004]

samh004, you live in southeast Queensland, post frequently on AFF and seem to know a lot.

I'll pay that, but only because you imply I seem to know a lot

markis10, are there any particularly tricky construction challenges for the new BNE runway during the period to 2020 when it may (should) open, or will the huge amount of preplanning and the usual design work mean that it is likely to proceed very smoothly (Acts of God excepted) and open somewhat in advance of the mooted date (i.e. a 'conservative' construction timetable has been publicised)?

Other than waiting for the land to settle, which a few have mentioned (and could take longer than expected, you just don't know till a few years have passed and you start testing things), I saw an article today about increased noise to suburbs who previously weren't under a main flight path... so if they band together, maybe we'll have another SYD-esque problem on our hands.

We could have a new runway in 2020 with a curfew to match and it'll be wasted

 

[Melburnian1]

samh004, while the link below is from a different era (c. 15 years ago), in a different city (Melbourne) with different soils and an apparently notoriously difficult in engineering terms to deal with river (the Yarra), the CityLink road project in Melbourne's Burnley Tunnel to its southeastern suburbs was an example of a major construction project that despite meticulous planning somehow got a most important indicator (water ingress) very wrong:

Plagued by leaks from the start - National - theage.com.au

Hopefully predictions have improved since then, but we'll know that when the 200th A380 has landed without any problems after 2020.