Booted from seat at gate - Does it happen often?

[jb747]

From aerodynamics and aircraft design points of view it is better to have a nose-heavy craft, rather than tail-heavy or even completely neutral balance.

Not only is it preferable, but it's the only way they are. As the CofG moves aft, there is a drag benefit, but as it moves aft, the aircraft initially becomes 'twitchy', and ultimately manually unflyable. The makers give a range of allowable CofGs. Generally it moves forward during a flight...so what you take off with must allow for that movement, and ensure it remains within the acceptable range for the entire flight.

 

[greglow]

VA Plat - Got bumped to another seat, and separated from my VA Gold wife, to let a family move in. I ended up in a centre seat elsewhere as I wasn't permitted to sit beside the child, as I was male. They left my wife there. Unimpressed.

 

[klavdy]

Odd, I too recently had a DRW -BNE flight,19th December 2014, booked seat 5C, got to the gate and had been bumped back to row 12.

 

[Blackdog]

So I was flying DRW-BNE this afternoon and checked in way way in advance of the flight and got myself assigned to 5C.

As I was scanned at the gate it flashed red and said "Seat change" and then was told "sorry you have been moved to row 12" with the explanation that they needed to accommodate a family in row 5. I know it happened at the last moment as I opened the boarding pass from the sms as they called the flight - showed 5C so it happened in the 10 mins between when the flight was called and I scanned at the gate.

What I struggle with is why the hell I got kicked out and they didn't move the family down the back of the plane? Could they not find a red in row 10 to boot out? Some halfwit just made changes and not thought about it.

I realise it was a totally full flight (no empty seats so I was stuck there) but there was zero service on VA's part. They could have done me the courtesy of advising of the change before I was about to walk down the aerobridge. The FA's were nice enough about it but they could have done something small like offer me a comp beer or cheese and crackers (because, you know, DRW BNE doesn't get that) that I still purchased.

It's not so much about loosing 7 rows, it was now having a small child beside me, kicking me every now and again. It was also not having any recline (I am quite tall so it makes a difference to a flight!) and the poor handling of the situation.

This was my welcome to VAGold flight and I was left feeling really really pissed off!

Harden up I say! do you reckon the staff enjoy doing this and just do this to piss you off. Get real!!

 

[klavdy]

Nice first post there, "Blackdog"

 

[coco50]

My wife and I got "booted" from our selected seats of 7A and 7B on a JQ flight from BNK - SYD. The FA who recognised us asked if we were prepared to swap with the couple in 1A and 1B because they felt unable to cope with the exit row requirements. There was even a swap of our luggage from the overhead lockers. I did not protest - nor was I "pissed off".

 

[Cecil]

Not sure about weight and balance. As a private pilot I don't believe a person makes much difference in a commercial jet. Generally VA seems very good to me and I get in my view, better treatment than QA.

 

[medhead]

Harden up I say! do you reckon the staff enjoy doing this and just do this to piss you off. Get real!!

Hell yeah! they enjoy doing this!

Or perhaps that gives VA staff too much credit. On balance I think they are completely indifferent to their customers. I think they just don't give a cough about looking after customers with status. Especially when they can look after their mates.

If you are a staff member your challenge is to change this cough behaviour. This thread shows there is a massive need for many VA staff to fix their attitude towards passengers. I send a heap of cash towards QF because of this cough in VA.

 

[medhead]

Not sure about weight and balance. As a private pilot I don't believe a person makes much difference in a commercial jet. Generally VA seems very good to me and I get in my view, better treatment than QA.

One person no. 100 people - yes

 

[prozac]

Not only is it preferable, but it's the only way they are. As the CofG moves aft, there is a drag benefit, but as it moves aft, the aircraft initially becomes 'twitchy', and ultimately manually unflyable. The makers give a range of allowable CofGs. Generally it moves forward during a flight...so what you take off with must allow for that movement, and ensure it remains within the acceptable range for the entire flight.

Pretty sure the CoG changes in flight with fuel burn.

edit. Apologies, I see you dealt with that in your response.

 

[Muriel]

So I was flying DRW-BNE this afternoon and checked in way way in advance of the flight and got myself assigned to 5C.

As I was scanned at the gate it flashed red and said "Seat change" and then was told "sorry you have been moved to row 12" with the explanation that they needed to accommodate a family in row 5. I know it happened at the last moment as I opened the boarding pass from the sms as they called the flight - showed 5C so it happened in the 10 mins between when the flight was called and I scanned at the gate.

What I struggle with is why the hell I got kicked out and they didn't move the family down the back of the plane? Could they not find a red in row 10 to boot out? Some halfwit just made changes and not thought about it.

I realise it was a totally full flight (no empty seats so I was stuck there) but there was zero service on VA's part. They could have done me the courtesy of advising of the change before I was about to walk down the aerobridge. The FA's were nice enough about it but they could have done something small like offer me a comp beer or cheese and crackers (because, you know, DRW BNE doesn't get that) that I still purchased.

It's not so much about loosing 7 rows, it was now having a small child beside me, kicking me every now and again. It was also not having any recline (I am quite tall so it makes a difference to a flight!) and the poor handling of the situation.

This was my welcome to VAGold flight and I was left feeling really really pissed off!

I really sympathise with you. You'd taken the trouble to select your seat in advance and must have wondered "why didn't the other family do that if sitting together was important to them" Why the special service for them?

To find yourself in a seat that doesn't recline is misery on any flight. Ive experienced that on Virgin - not good. Virgin should have offered some recompense. As you say, they could have given you the biscuits & cheese free. Nothing is allowed to be carried off the plane' all left over food that hasn't sold is destroyed.

I believe that the ground staff are NOT employed by Virgin but are employed by some sort of agency. I was also told by one ground staff member that they don't even get the privileges that Virgin employees get.

On one occasion, I had damaged my leg but was still able to fly - with leg elevated. The crew changed my seat to one which would accommodate that. The woman whose seat I was given was furious because she was being moved to a window seat at the back of the plane. I felt awful. However a kind passenger in the row me behind offered her seat to the woman whose aisle seat Id been given and she went to the back of the plane. It can be tricky but sometimes there is a genuine reason why the crew move passengers to another seat.

But it seems to me that a family wanting to sit together was not a good enough reason.

 

[prozac]

After being treated appallingly by Virgin gate staff (FA), left locked in a stairwell whilst the last passengers boarded and then roundly abused for yelling to get attention I swore we would never set foot on Virgin again. There is more than this to the story. Icing on the cake, when we arrived at our destination our bags had disappeared. Received the weakest apology after complaining on AFF, with Virgin trying to deflect blame for being locked in stairwell onto contract ground-staff when it was clearly fault of an officious FA. They are afraid to deal with the nub of the problem.

I will be reluctantly flying Virgin in April courtesy of Amex annual complimentary flight. I don't have great expectations.

 

[hossein_au]

Not only is it preferable, but it's the only way they are. As the CofG moves aft, there is a drag benefit, but as it moves aft, the aircraft initially becomes 'twitchy', and ultimately manually unflyable. The makers give a range of allowable CofGs. Generally it moves forward during a flight...so what you take off with must allow for that movement, and ensure it remains within the acceptable range for the entire flight.

Exactly. As CoG moves aft, the plane becomes aerodynamically unstable. Also, as fuel is burnt, to compensate for the CoG moving forward the plane should ascent (this keeps all the aerodynamic efficiency equations in balance). That's the reason, barring other factors, cruise altitude increases as the flight progresses.

Ah, how I miss doing rocket science.... but to continue doing it I'll have to move to another continent... :-(

 

[Bellthorpe]

Refuse to move and see how they react. Did that once with J* and won.

Brilliant strategy. High risk of being told to leave the plane, with further non-compliance resulting in your arrest.

 

[prozac]

Brilliant strategy. High risk of being told to leave the plane, with further non-compliance resulting in your arrest.

Transiting ADL once. As we walked into the terminal AFP arrested the bloke who had been sitting next to me on the flight. I cannot recall any strange behaviour in flight so it must have been some other reason.

 

[notzac]

Harden up I say! do you reckon the staff enjoy doing this and just do this to piss you off. Get real!!

Some of them quite possibly do enjoy it (I don't know, I'm just guessing here) - I doubt that VA managed to get rid of all the staff still stuck in LCC land where people spending $$$$$$$$$$ are just the same as the once a year flyer spending $.

Families being seated together makes sense, but not when it's inconveniencing those whose loyalty allows them to sit further forward in the plane (or for that matter, inconveniencing anyone who was organised enough to preselect a seat). VA have an excellent seat zone system for the IBE, they just need to extend some of those rules to the airport control systems - and until they do, this sort of rubbish will continue to happen.

If I was moved to a poorer seat to accommodate a family who wasn't organised enough to select seats together in the first instance (which tells me that they're almost certainly not frequent flyers), I would be complaining extremely loudly.

Rant over

 

[jb747]

One person no. 100 people - yes

On a computerised load sheet, even on the 380, one person could make a difference. In practice, the loading isn't normally an issue, but remember that there are tonnes of freight below the floor, and that can change everything. One pallet could well be equivalent to 50 passengers.

 

[bertair]

It has been a long time since Qantas have updated their web site and their reservations portal still gets me mad when it comes to selecting seats.
It is only after payment has been made, can you then choose your seats. My wife and I prefer to be seated towards the rear as much as possible to allow her to get up frequently as she has a bad back and cannot sit for more than an hour at a time.
Often when we try to choose rear seats, they are blocked or shown as occupied. ( yes, I understand that some flights have three or four rear rows,usually on the left curtained as a crew rest area); but some are also (I think kept for unaccompanied minors) blocked on the seating plan.
I would like Qantas to show what seats are available BEFORE you choose the flight rather than after payment is made.
My thinking is that if you can't secure the seats you want (even paying a premium for the privilege), then you should be able to choose another flight at another time.
I try to do an on line check in as soon as the flight opens, but there have been occasions when the seats chosen at the initial reservation stage and E tickets issued have been issued, the final Boarding Passes show different seats, no where near those chosen.

When flying solo, I am not overly worried where I sit except if I am surrounded by uncontrollable kids or crying babies.
Sure, some think its is cute to have them wonder around, fidget and scream. Certainly not on a red eye from PER !!!
Would any Airline dare to change your seating if you were allocated your desired Business or First Class seat ?

 

[prozac]

... My wife and I prefer to be seated towards the rear as much as possible to allow her to get up frequently as she has a bad back and cannot sit for more than an hour at a time.
...

Back row can be good for mobility. Also last into the hill.

 

[mannej]

Often when we try to choose rear seats, they are blocked or shown as occupied. ( yes, I understand that some flights have three or four rear rows,usually on the left curtained as a crew rest area); but some are also (I think kept for unaccompanied minors) blocked on the seating plan.

There are a number of options available that will help you find out what seats should be available on each flight prior to purchase.
A call to QF should fix the issue as well.

Would any Airline dare to change your seating if you were allocated your desired Business or First Class seat ?

I am sure you can find enough examples of that occurring on here.