Booked J received Y cabin

[Austman]

Ahh. In that case it's totally Qantas' problem for selling a product that does not exist!

No. The product exists but it's not quite how it would be on QF. It's the same when QF sell seats on many, many other airlines. And it's been that way for decades.

 

[muppet]

No. The product exists but it's not quite how it would be on QF. It's the same when QF sell seats on many, many other airlines. And it's been that way for decades.

It is sufficiently different to business class that the PG website has a popup box warning that makes you select "Okay" to proceed.

I'm not arguing airlines do it regularly (I agree they do) - I'm arguing that customer is entitled to receive an honest description of the product being sold.

 

[DaveB]

Club Europe is actually quite good compared to their new Iberia Airlines stablemate. J is defined by being up the front of the plane, first on and if the flight makes destination, first off.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It is sufficiently different to business class that the PG website has a popup box warning that makes you select "Okay" to proceed.

I'm not arguing airlines do it regularly (I agree they do) - I'm arguing that customer is entitled to receive an honest description of the product being sold.

IIRC there's a bit of history here. PG used to be single class, then they introduced 'business class' on a few flights. Some A319s were configured for this with dedicated 2-2 seating. Business class proper (wide seats) has subsequently been replaced by 'blue ribbon premier', which is the 3-3 with blocked centre. This can be offered on all aircraft including A320s.

So it seems if you are lucky - you might get a legacy 2-2 A319, otherwise you get the more standard 3-3.

 

[Austman]

It is sufficiently different to business class that the PG website has a popup box warning that makes you select "Okay" to proceed.

I'm not arguing airlines do it regularly (I agree they do) - I'm arguing that customer is entitled to receive an honest description of the product being sold.

But the "Business Class" of what? A 3-3 config with the middle seat blocked is "Business Class" on dozens of flights I've travelled on! It's not all about the seat - or so the airlines claim. And even on QF, I've had a J-class A330 seat subbed to B737 several times. Not quite the same hard product. But the same price and no compensation. To QF they are the same. Pick your aircraft (if you can)! All AFF'ers know that.

 

[Austman]

And I see - from looking at the links, it should not have been the "Y cabin" (as the thread title says) that the OP received.

It should have been the J-class cabin which had Y-class seating (but middle seat blocked).

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Sounds like the J seat you'd get on most short haul Europe flights. BA Club Europe anyone?

I didn't realise USM had packed it's bags and moved to Europe. Was your answer meant to be helpful?

 

[opusman]

Ahh. In that case it's totally Qantas' problem for selling a product that does not exist!

Qantas will happily sell you a J ticket on (e.g.) BA LHR-GLA when these planes don't even have a "blocked middle seat pretend J cabin", so they definitely have form.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I didn't realise USM had packed it's bags and moved to Europe. Was your answer meant to be helpful?

With the exception of Thai Airways, Thailand domestic seems to be moving towards a euro-style 'business' class. Bangkok Airways and Thai Smile are offering 3-3 seating with blocked middle seat, along with standard business class offerings of priority check-in, baggage and boarding etc.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I'm always amazed that a business fails to deliver what it advertises and so many AFFers jump to their defence. If the QF site didn't pop up a warning about the possibility of no J being delivered (a shadow is not J and the PG warning is testament to that) then compensation is due and the sooner we stop hearing about poor ol' hard done by QF the better. As far as comparisons go, this is very reminiscent of the old VA rogue PE seats and then later rogue J seats. It was not acceptable (nor legal) practice and public pressure forced their removal from sale (along with compensation paid, despite reluctance from the airlines' money bags). As a recent example, try this thread which is discussing J downgrade to a less alluring, but still genuine J product........$250 plus 30000 points yet the cost difference between the two products is just $50 or so........VA aren't giving money away for no reason. People make purchase decisions based on the product advertised and the genuine cost difference doesn't always form a basis for compensation.

To the OP........go for your life. I wish you the best and you should get compensation (IMHO).

Time we stop excusing failure of airlines to deliver and demand adequate compensation. QF tix are sold under AU consumer protection law as far as I'm aware and whilst we keep hearing from the bleeding hearts who excuse such cough as "standard business in many parts of the world", it's not standard business here and I'd hazard a guess, such deception is not legal here.

 

[cmon0005]

So got a reply, it was a proper written email (not a template for once) that actually provided a confirmation that they understood the problem, why it was a problem to me, what they have done (feedback to PG and for QF re: PG annual review.etc.) plus the gesture of goodwill which I won't disclose, and whilst it is not exactly what I was after, I am content with the goodwill offer and won't put in any further effort to pursue it further.
Thanks for the advice all.

 

[Austman]

It's the result I expected you might get: Some goodwill.

While swanning_it makes a point, it's simply not the way the industry generally operates. I learned that lesson back in 1985 and it hasn't changed much since.

I hope too that, apart from seat pitch, the other benefits of the "business class" were offered.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

It's the result I expected you might get: Some goodwill.

While swanning_it makes a point, it's simply not the way the industry generally operates. I learned that lesson back in 1985 and it hasn't changed much since.

I hope too that, apart from seat pitch, the other benefits of the "business class" were offered.

I looked at PGs website and they don't appear to call the offering "business class". In fact it's very similar to the old VA domestic premium economy. The pitch is greater and the width is greater and it appears the first 3 rows like this are in a separate cabin (curtain separation). If they subbed this config out with a normal all Y config, the OP probably missed out on pitch, width, separate cabin and the meal offering (I doubt they'd be able to cater for premium meals on a subbed all Y aircraft) and as stated, basically got a Y flying experience when sold J. Sure they may have got lounge access, priority check-in, boarding and whatever was available at the airport, but the chances are as a QF WP they may have received that in Y anyway.

I do hear what you say about it being industry practice, but it is only industry practice if the customers allow it without challenge. I once fell victim to the VA rogue PE seat and they initially refused any compensation until I threatened to report them for selling a product they didn't deliver. They backed down and a reasonable compensation was offered (and accepted). When the VA rogue J seats on the 73W reared its head, a few AFFers defended VA unwaveringly and refused to understand that despite VA making exciting and widespread upgrades to their product, it doesn't give them the right to sell a J product and then deliver Y to the unfortunate pax who happened to luck out with the all Y 73W that was semi sold as a J config aircraft. It's the airlines problem, not the pax. The extraordinary thing with the VA rogue J fiasco was that when they decided to remove the J product from sale when they realised they couldn't guarantee supplying it and that pax would not accept paying for J but receiving Y, a few AFFers accused others of their complaints causing the J to be removed from sale and argued some J is better then none! I argue that taking that stance with combined outrage is quite probably the reason we now see reasonable amounts of compensation being offered by VA when they fail to provide the product they've sold.

That's the kind of stance that needs to happen with QF. If it means QF have to add a pop up warning to the booking engine, then so be it. PG don't advertise their product as being business class, so why is QF selling it as such? PG warn customers that the aircraft on that route may be subbed out, so why doesn't QF offer the same warning? Simply saying it's industry practice is giving the green light for such arrogant practices to continue and I'd hope that all flyers affected by these kind of poor QF marketing decisions seek compensation and despite calling it an offer of goodwill, it is in fact compensation they are paying.

 

[JohnK]

But the "Business Class" of what? A 3-3 config with the middle seat blocked is "Business Class" on dozens of flights I've travelled on! It's not all about the seat - or so the airlines claim. And even on QF, I've had a J-class A330 seat subbed to B737 several times. Not quite the same hard product. But the same price and no compensation. To QF they are the same. Pick your aircraft (if you can)! All AFF'ers know that.

I have successfully argued with Virgin that what they were offering on the Embraers as business class (economy seats with blocked seat next to you) was not actually business class as I paid to sit in a better seat not economy seat with blocked seat.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I have successfully argued with Virgin that what they were offering on the Embraers as business class (economy seats with blocked seat next to you) was not actually business class as I paid to sit in a better seat not economy seat with blocked seat.

What was the "successful" resolution?

 

[Milefest]

What was the "successful" resolution?

A fancy Breville toaster from the velocity store perhaps

 

[JohnK]

What was the "successful" resolution?

There is a thread here somewhere but I received compensation. $300 which I thought was reasonable? Paid for flexible airfare to specifically use my 2 complimentary upgrades only to find myself sitting in an economy seat. That was for 2 flights. SYD-CNS and TSV-BNE. Most on AFF were blaming me that I should have known better.

I don't ask for a lot but I hate it when an airline cannot delivery consistency. eg booking economy on QF747 or A380 and having that flight substituted to A330 or in the old days a 767. It is like comparing chalk and cheese.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Most on AFF were blaming me that I should have known better.

This is the point I made earlier. I think some AFFers (me as well at times) think that everyone knows the quirks, but that is simply wrong. As I've said, if an airline sells a product it cannot deliver (for whatever reason) than clearly the customer should be compensated and the more we make excuses for the airline, the more normal it becomes for them to rip us off (either intentionally or unintentionally).

 

[downgraded]

Bit lost on this. You know they don't fly J but buy a J ticket anyway and expect compensation. On multi hop trips where a sector had no J option but a single ticket, my TA pointed out the obvious but it was still the most cost effective option so i took it anyway.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Bit lost on this. You know they don't fly J but buy a J ticket anyway and expect compensation.

That's may not be entirely true. The OP didn't suggest they were aware of no J when the tix was purchased, only when they were checking at the airport. The tix apparently was sold as business, so regardless of what the OP knew or didn't know is a bit irrelevant to the fact that QF should have been aware no business was available and only a PE option. There is also some confusion over this as another poster has said J is available on that route. I'm unsure if that is a genuine business or is just PE, but I think it's PE. It does highlight the fact though, that QF are selling business tix without warning pax that the product is likely only PE.