Boeing vs Bombadier

[scaredeycat]

An interesting video about Bombadier's new C series plane and Boeing's attempt to scuttle it.

 

[kelvedon]

An interesting video about Bombadier's new C series plane and Boeing's attempt to scuttle it.

Thanks for posting that video. Very interesting.

 

[G00r]

Wendover Productions has done a lot of great videos on the aviation industry. Suggest checking out his other ones and his other channel HalfAsInteresting

 

[samh004]

I know nothing about what regional operators want in a plane, but it seems to me that considering the number of Dash 8 200/300's and Bombardier Q400's QantasLink (and now Jetstar NZ) operate, that striking a deal for the CS100 and/or CS300 would make business sense for Qantas due to some commonality. They have been buying up/leasing 717's left right and centre, but surely the C Series offer better fuel economy than the 717's with perhaps slightly more capacity and range too.

align="center" border="2" width="100%" style="width: 100%"
|-
| align="center" |
| align="center" | QF 717 Y
| align="center" | QF 717 J/Y
| align="center" colspan="2" | CS100
| align="center" colspan="2" | CS300
|-
| align="center" | Range
| align="center" colspan="2" | 2408km
| align="center" colspan="2" | 5741km
| align="center" colspan="2" | 6112km
|-
| align="center" | Capacity
| align="center" | 125 Y
| align="center" | 12 J / 98 Y
| align="center" | 133 Y
| align="center" | 8 J / 100 Y
| align="center" | 160 Y
| align="center" | 12 J / 118 Y
|-

 

[scaredeycat]

And a much more comfortable and quieter passenger experience, I suspect...

 

[docjames]

I know nothing about what regional operators want in a plane, but it seems to me that considering the number of Dash 8 200/300's and Bombardier Q400's QantasLink (and now Jetstar NZ) operate, that striking a deal for the CS100 and/or CS300 would make business sense for Qantas due to some commonality. They have been buying up/leasing 717's left right and centre, but surely the C Series offer better fuel economy than the 717's with perhaps slightly more capacity and range too.

align="center" border="2" width="100%" style="width: 100%"
|-
| align="center" |
| align="center" | QF 717 Y
| align="center" | QF 717 J/Y
| align="center" colspan="2" | CS100
| align="center" colspan="2" | CS300
|-
| align="center" | Range
| align="center" colspan="2" | 2408km
| align="center" colspan="2" | 5741km
| align="center" colspan="2" | 6112km
|-
| align="center" | Capacity
| align="center" | 125 Y
| align="center" | 12 J / 98 Y
| align="center" | 133 Y
| align="center" | 8 J / 100 Y
| align="center" | 160 Y
| align="center" | 12 J / 118 Y
|-

yes, but remember they (presumably) got the 717s on the cheap, so "overall cost" is lower.

But the time will come to replace, and a mixed CS100/300 fleet would be an interesting proposition for QF/QFLink.

 

[Basalt]

And a much more comfortable and quieter passenger experience, I suspect...

I suspect you're spot on. I've only been in a QF 717 once and I was glad I had my noise cancelling headphones.

Still cracks me up though that Bombardier makes aircraft, they were the 'other' snowmobile company when I was a kid.

 

[TomVexille]

I suspect you're spot on. I've only been in a QF 717 once and I was glad I had my noise cancelling headphones.

Still cracks me up though that Bombardier makes aircraft, they were the 'other' snowmobile company when I was a kid.

They're quiet up front...

 

[drron]

Canada fights back.Take that boeing.
Canada Retaliates Against The US & Boeing, Cancels Fighter Jet Order - One Mile at a Time

 

[codash1099]

And a rebuff for Boeing

U.S. trade panel strikes down 300 percent tariffs on Canadian jets, dealing a blow to Boeing

 

[jetset]

I'm not surprised. Boeing doesn't make 5 across regional jets any more. Their argument that the CS-100 competes with the 737 is pretty dubious.
Bombardier out-maneuvered Boeing by announcing production in Alabama in conjunction with Airbus. Meanwhile Boeing took considerable flack from Canada in the cancellation of Jet fighter orders.

Ultimately Boeing have come out with an egg on their face. Which is a pity because they make great aircraft, just not in every market segment.

 

[eric2011]

Here I have put the common Airbus models, can someone indicate the corresponding class of Boeing. I think they are all still in production.

A319
A320
A330
A350
A380

 

[TomVexille]

Here I have put the common Airbus models, can someone indicate the corresponding class of Boeing. I think they are all still in production.

A319
A320
A330
A350
A380

I'll have a stab

A319 - 737-800
A320 - 737-900ER
A330 - sorta sits between the 767/787&777
A350 - 787-10 or 777-200
A380 - 747-8

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'll have a stab

A319 - 737-800
A320 - 737-900ER
A330 - sorta sits between the 767/787&777
A350 - 787-10 or 777-200
A380 - 747-8

I'd move up the 738 from the A319 to the A320. The A319 only seats up to 143 or so in a fairly high density configuration (BA club Europe). Much smaller than the 738 at 180 or so. The A320 seats ~180 all economy. The 777-200 is supposed to be a competitor to the A330. The A350 is right with the 787. The A380 really doesn't have a competitor.

 

[TomVexille]

I'd move up the 738 from the A319 to the A320. The A319 only seats up to 143 or so in a fairly high density configuration (BA club Europe). Much smaller than the 738 at 180 or so. The A320 seats ~180 all economy. The 777-200 is supposed to be a competitor to the A330. The A350 is right with the 787. The A380 really doesn't have a competitor.

You're right about the 737/A320s, I was running off the numbers on Wikipedia. But I don't agree about the A350. It's a bigger aircraft than the 787. The 787-10 will compete with the A350-900 but that's the largest 787 vs the smallest A350 so not a direct competitor

 

[Justinf]

I swear I read somewhere that when the 717s came into production, that Boeing was spruiking about the quieter cabin.

 

[jb747]

A319 - No Being equivalent
A320 - 737
A321 - 757
A330 - 767/787
A350 - 777
A380 - No Boeing equivalent.

Boeing have wasted decades on the 737. It is long past it's 'due by' date, and is well behind the A320 NEO.

They do not have anything small, so no real competitor to the C series. The should have done a lot more with the 757. It, or at least an updated version of it, is something they need.

The A350 is basically a 777 sized aircraft that actually works. The 787 is long legged but is really a fit at around the 767 replacement level.

I have no idea why Boeing mucked with the 748 at all. It offers little over the 777-300, cost them a fortune, and simply wasn't needed.

 

[jetset]

I don't agree about the A350. It's a bigger aircraft than the 787. The 787-10 will compete with the A350-900 but that's the largest 787 vs the smallest A350 so not a direct competitor

I agree. Whilst these two planes may superficially appear similar in seat-count, it's worthwhile having a look at maximum take-off weights.
The largest 787 variant (787-10) has a MTOW of 254t whereas the smallest A350 (A350-900) has a MTOW of 280t. Hence the fuel capacity and range capabilities will be very different. These planes would be ideally matched to different routes. Might also be worth mentioning that the 787 has a very narrow cabin for a 9 seater.