BALI volcano ash and cancellation of flights discussion

[Pushka]

they will give you a credit, voucher, whatever you want to call it.

no cash refunds - pretty standard for most airlines.

Ok. So you mean you won’t get the money back. A voucher then.

 

[theblank]

correct. AIrlines dont give money back unless its a refundable ticket.
Offering a travel credit is a good deal actually - they dont have to.

 

[Pushka]

Ok. Just repost this here
Bali volcano possible eruption Agung 2017

 

[theblank]

New announcement from MAGMA Indonesia today 29/09/17 14:18 AEST
https://magma.vsi.esdm.go.id/press/view.php?id=98

the interesting bits-

1. Satellites have detected new steam emissions and thermal areas within the summit crater; these areas have expanded during the past week and now include a new area of emissions in the center of the crater.
2. Analysis of tiltmeter data suggests some inflation (swelling) of Mount Agung

 

[Pushka]

Upgrade on smart travellers
Smartraveller.gov.au - Mount Agung Volcano

The infuriating thing is that until Govt says Don’t Travel then there is no insurance claim.

 

[OzEire]

The infuriating thing is that until Govt says Don’t Travel then there is no insurance claim.

I'm not sure that's quite how it goes. The Govt can't tell you whether or not to travel to any place or on certain dates - its not North Korea. The advice is provided to help travelers make an informed decision. If you went anyway against advice of "Don't Travel", I doubt travel insurance would cover you for anything that happened, like getting stuck when airlines cancel flights.

Airlines also monitor government travel advice but make their own business decisions, no doubt in conjunction with their insurers. It would be a courageous company to continue going against govt travel advice of don't travel so when this point is reached, airlines will most likely cancel flights so travel insurance would use the airline cancellations as the basis of any loss not already covered by the airline.

Hotels and tour companies along a similar line.

But it is not correct to directly link government travel advice to insurance kicking in.

 

[Pushka]

But it is not correct to directly link government travel advice to insurance kicking in.

But that is exactly what two different insurance companies have now told me. That cancellation insurance will only kick in if the Govt tells us not to travel. The devil in insurance policies is always in the detail. So in the sense of what I said it is correct.

 

[OzEire]

... two different insurance companies have now told me. That cancellation insurance will only kick in if the Govt tells us not to travel.

Not doubting this is the case when you initiate the cancellation - any official statement will help your case and for the insurer "Don't Travel" is a strong statement. I prefer when the travel provider cancels flight/hotel bookings, because then the situation is much much clearer for any insurance claim.

Did they say how the company interprets conflicting govt advice, eg. A situation where Australian govt doesn't upgrade to "Don't Travel" but Bali local authorities evacuate the area where you would have stayed, but not the airport?

 

[Pushka]

Not doubting this is the case when you initiate the cancellation - any official statement will help your case and for the insurer "Don't Travel" is a strong statement. I prefer when the travel provider cancels flight/hotel bookings, because then the situation is much much clearer for any insurance claim.

Did they say how the company interprets conflicting govt advice, eg. A situation where Australian govt doesn't upgrade to "Don't Travel" but Bali local authorities evacuate the area where you would have stayed, but not the airport?

I am struggling with Insurance company ‘double speak’ to be honest. They will not pay for cancellation unless ‘do not travel’ is on the Fed website and we all know that will never happen - too many conflicting trade interests. Yet on the Insurance PDS there are such words as ‘mitigate loss’ yada yada. Columbus Insurance on policies issued pre May 2017 don’t even cover for natural disasters and of course ours was purchased earlier. I bought that policy through AFF. I suspect if I put in a claim they would cover it as they have said not to let the old wording prevent me from claiming and they will consider it. And this volcano keeps threatening without actually doing anything. Must be awful for the local people who have been relocated.

Our current losses are around $2700 for non cancellable accommodation through Luxury Escapes. Until the airlines stop flying then if we want to change flights then it’s a $300 or $600 change fee? If they stop flying then it’s going to be free. Qantas have made no announcement yet so business as usual. (As an aside when Qatar was stopped flying into DXB we caught wind of this earlier through AFF and we had to pay to change our flights as they were award bookings and there were just 2 seats on the one EK flight we had to take - next day there would have been no charge but the seats would have been snapped up).

 

[theblank]

I am struggling with Insurance company ‘double speak’ to be honest. They will not pay for cancellation unless ‘do not travel’ is on the Fed website and we all know that will never happen - too many conflicting trade interests.

I think what they are telling you, is that a Govt do not go Travel alert, is classed as an event beyond your control, and is the only way that they will cover you for cancellation prior to travel date (outside of medical et al)

It all makes sense to me, I don't think we need to ring the insurance company to know this. The Govt wont issue a do not travel alert anyway, because Bali will still be safe place to visit even if Agung erupts. All the predictions so far are that its only going to be a disaster within the 12 km exclusion zone

Our only options to make insurance claims is if an event occurs out of our control, which is really limited to the airlines cancel our flights. Based on what happened 2 years ago, that's going to be a day to day decision by the airlines, which is what should be expected, they do want to fly.

I have two covers for this trip from credit cards;
AMEX: allows me to cancel if delayed by 24 hours, so thats pretty clear
ANZ: "If you have to cancel any pre-paid travel arrangements due to any unforeseen or unforeseeable circumstances outside of your control " ie no time limit.

If I am a betting man, I would say that your flights would have to be cancelled by more than 1 day before you can trigger an insurance claim to cover all your cancellation costs. Otherwise the insurers will say "your flights are only delayed", and we will pay you Travel Delay cover. *unless* the airline makes a clear announcement that flights are cancelled by more than one day.

Until the airlines stop flying then if we want to change flights then it’s a $300 or $600 change fee?

yep, I am in same boat, if I change my bookings now, the total cost (extra cost + losses) to me will be $400. So I got to decide for myself, is that $400 worth it for the peace of mind?

At the moment - it's not. I have got 3 weeks. I figure if it hasnt blown by then, it wont blow on my flight. If it has blown - then we have a heads up whats going on.

The seasons just about to change, the prevailing winds are westerly in the wet season- so the ashcloud should be heading away from bali and the airport.

 

[andy2015]

We wanted/needed to cancel our Bali trip that is in ~3 weeks time so just waiting for it to erupt so we can cancel for minimal losses.

 

[dajop]

Another airline that is allowing free changes is KLM (not that's of any use for those heading from Australia, only from Europe and SIN). I took advantage of it yesterday to delay my departure from Bali by 24 hrs ... will see what happens today with Agung, hope I don't regret it.

Apparently the government have a contingency plan with buses and ferries to transport people to Lombok or Surabaya should there be airport closures. Could easily see Lombok being affected as well, and probably only a 12-15 hour journey to SUB

 

[bam71]

Which is EXACTLY why we don't want to go! We're off to the South of France on Tuesday, and have tickets to Bali from Frankfurt departing on the 16th Oct. Was planning a 3 day break before departing back to Brisbane on the 20th. We've decided it would be crazy to still go if Mt Agung hasn't erupted by then( we don't want to go if it HAS!). But stuck between a rock and a hard place. Cost to change our FRA DPS tickets to go to SIN instead is around 2K each, and we have non ref J tickets ( business saver fare) from DPS to Brisbane. Just need to wait and see what happens, but we don't want to 1. have to get a bus/ferry to Surabaya together home and 2. Be a burden on either Virgin or the people of Bali when/if it all turns to poo....

 

[Pushka]

The ferry to Lombok can be a little treacherous and it’s a nonsense to think they can ferry plane passengers across along with their normal load. It’s a bit of BS. The airport is around an hour away from Lombok port. They simply won’t have the buses available on the island. Surabaya would be even worse. Let’s face it. If it blows then no one would go and the best case scenario would be they get stranded passengers out rather than getting new arrivals in.

 

[theblank]

have to get a bus/ferry to Surabaya together home and 2. Be a burden on either Virgin or the people of Bali when/if it all turns to poo....

i am pretty sure that last time this happened none of the australian airlines flew to Surabaya or any other airport. The flights either flew to DPS or were cancelled.

 

[Pushka]

I certainly don’t want to be a burden on recovery efforts if this disaster happens. The trouble with the media is that they leap on to any sniff of trouble and pound it to death so we never know the facts. Just heard Bishop on the radio and she’s dithering around and basically saying don’t go now. Denial that people simply can’t cancel and not suffer considerable loss until the Dont Go message appears on their website. And we know that won’t happen.

 

[theblank]

MAGMA indonesia has added a live Seismograph to their web site. Seems to update every frequently (which is the last thing i need).

MAGMA Indonesia | Live Seismogram

 

[dajop]

The trouble with the media is that they leap on to any sniff of trouble and pound it to death so we never know the facts.

Some particularly bad media reporting (particularly in the online media). A couple of gems include:

• mixing up discussion of an undersea earthquake with the volcano, whilst they may or may not be linked geologically, the statement was along the lines "Despite no official tsunami warning being issued, people were continuing to evacuate villages around Mt Agung" ...
• "Eruption of nearby volcano, Mt Sinabung raises fears that Agung eruption is imminent" (or something like that). Sinabung is North Sumatra, and may well be "nearby" in geologic terms (not sure?) but in our usual sense of nearby, the two volcanoes are nearby in the same way that Melbourne is nearby to Cairns, or London is nearby to Marrakesh.

 

[theblank]

There is an official update on the status of Gn. Agung last night.
As an extra bonus, they are releasing all updates in both English and Indonesian.
Recent Updates on Mount Agung Volcanic Activity (5 October 2017 17:00 Central Indonesia Time/CIT UTC+8)

The quick synopisis of this update is: hasnt erupted yet

 

[Melburnian1]

Has the threat from Mt Agung substantially receded or does the situation remain almost totally unpredictable?

There doesn't seem to be anything in the media in the last few days.