Baggage..The hidden cost

[Oneworldplus2]

I just read this thread and was wondering to myself, as others have in this thread, what does she need more than 20kg for? (Kitchen sink, microwave...?) Maybe men are just "simple" (lol).

OT:
I just got back from a 2 week FIFO job yesterday, and my checked in baggage was under 10kg, including work uniforms. (Flying Thai, PER-BKK, checked in luggage = 4.5kg. My personal record for a 10 day o/s trip.)

 

[anat0l]

Maybe men are just "simple" (lol).

No joke. When it comes to checked bags, in the majority that is a given

 

[ric_melb]

My own point of view, is that there is no need to split this thread. The various matters being discussed are still relevant.

 

[trooper]

Being able to sell unused baggage allowance? That could be interesting.... I have a friend in Colombia who... well.. never mind...

No... I lean towards the view (Warning!: It's a hand grenade view on travel fora) that we should all be allowed the same TOTAL weight on the plane... Airlines use 86 kg as the "standard" pax weight don't they?... Cool.... I'd personally gain 10 kg of baggage allowance...:mrgreen: if they used 86 + 20 kg (or whatever) for THAT calculation!

After all.. if you freight something by air you pay by weight... so why does a 60 kg person pay the same as a 110 kg one to travel on the same flight?.. and get only the same baggage allowance?

(Hiding in my shed now.... FIRE AT WILL!!! :mrgreen::mrgreen

 

[Fantic125]

I think Jack has given up since it's gone off topic.....

I guess the main points from this would be you need to clearly identify your expectations and requirements, prioritise what is important to you, and do some research before you go out and seek quotes.
Then compare and see what best suits.

(And pack light. Even if I'm travelling for 4 weeks I rarely hit 15kg's, so by trooper's calculation I'd still be 4kg's over......)

(and 1 more post and I'll be 100!)

 

[drron]

Being able to sell unused baggage allowance? That could be interesting.... I have a friend in Colombia who... well.. never mind...

No... I lean towards the view (Warning!: It's a hand grenade view on travel fora) that we should all be allowed the same TOTAL weight on the plane... Airlines use 86 kg as the "standard" pax weight don't they?... Cool.... I'd personally gain 10 kg of baggage allowance...:mrgreen: if they used 86 + 20 kg (or whatever) for THAT calculation!

After all.. if you freight something by air you pay by weight... so why does a 60 kg person pay the same as a 110 kg one to travel on the same flight?.. and get only the same baggage allowance?

(Hiding in my shed now.... FIRE AT WILL!!! :mrgreen::mrgreen

So a person of say 140cm in height weighing say 110kg who oozes into your seat pays the same as a fit 195cm fellow weighing 110kg but easily fits in his own seat.
I would agree but then anyone under 80kg we must assume doesn't have the required strength to sit in exit rows.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Just getting back to the issue on hand - a travel agent is an agent for the airline (and other travel suppliers) - not for the passenger.

An agent sells goods and services, acts on behalf of a supplier.

There may be other contractual issues that may arise (especially if you pay the travel agent a fee for services), and the travel agent may owe you a duty of care, but these are separate from the issue of agency. Also consider for example if you specifically mention that a 23 kilo allowance was necessary and you were sold a product allowing only 20kgs, then you have goods which are not fit for purpose (and another field of law).

On the toipc at hand however, the OP may well be justified in being upset.

It may be that the agent (on behalf of the airline) should have pointed out any unusual terms and conditions which apply to the contract. In this case, it may be that a 20kg limit is noteworthy as it is significantly below current practice by other major airlines operating into Australia. In fact Jetstar clearly marks its 'lite' fares as excluding baggage all together, and other low costs prevent you from booking unless you specify and pay for your exact desired baggage allowance.

How far this would go (against Qatar) if you decided to pursue it I have no idea, but there are two things going against you:

(a) the standard baggage allowance (for the last 40 years) has always been 20 kilos (44 lbs) for economy and 30 kilos (66 lbs) for First, and two bags for travel to/from the USA. When business class was introduced so was the higher allowance for First class to 40kgs (88lbs).

(b) it could well be argued that if you had the time to research baggage allowance for other airlines then you should have researched it for Qatar.

However - that being said, there is a case where two pax turned up at the airport with plenty of excess baggage and sucessfully argued in court that 'allow 20' writen on the ticket (as used to be in days of paper tickets) was an 'unlear term' and therefore not binding. They had their excess baggage charges reversed by the court.

I would apply the same argument for a 45 min check-in time to be brought to my attention (for example on TT) as this differs from the 'traditional' cut-off of 30 mins for most legacy carriers. Although as time goes on and people are becoming aware fo the 45 mins the argument holds less sway.

 

[medhead]

Just getting back to the issue on hand - a travel agent is an agent for the airline (and other travel suppliers) - not for the passenger.

An agent sells goods and services, acts on behalf of a supplier.

Not sure how you figure that, which airline a TA the agent for? Except in the case of Qantas Travel or similar, the Agent is engaged by the passenger, not the airline, to find options to suit the needs of the passenger. They approach a range of suppliers on instruction from the passenger. It is equally true to say that the TA is buying goods on behalf of the purchaser. given that the passenger has initiated the action by the TA, IMO the transaction goes in that direct.

The more I think about this the more I think that the TA should have informed the OP about the limits, as they were acting for the passenger. If the TA is considered an agent of the airline then they have no obligation to say anything if the passenger doesn't ask.

 

[Dave Noble]

The more I think about this the more I think that the TA should have informed the OP about the limits, as they were acting for the passenger. If the TA is considered an agent of the airline then they have no obligation to say anything if the passenger doesn't ask.

I still think it depends on what the customer told the travel agent what his needs were. Go in and ask them for the cheapest price for a flight to London and not mention that 3Kg is a major issue in luggage, then if they found the cheapest flight they could, then they did their job

It is up to the customer to ensure that any special modifiers are mentioned; it is not as if 3Kg is a large amount nor is the allowance particularly odd; the travel agents are not psychic

 

[notmensa]

It may be a little more complicated than 'he said, she said'... It depends on what the TA asked the OP to sign when the ticket was purchased, and what specific terms and conditions were being included in that contract at the time of purchase.

My recent international flights were booked through Flight Centre. I received a quote with flights and accommodation details in writing, and there was a separate document with the flight details, ticket change fees and other information. Prior to accepting my credit card, the agent had me sign the flight details document. Among other things (such as "I agree that the above dates, times and destinations are correct. All names appear as per travellers' passports.), the document had the following:

* For conditions of carriage on your chosen airline, please contact your
consultant.
* Please advise your consultant of any special requirements you may have:
special meals, seating requests or medical requirements.
* You should re-confirm your onward and return flights directly with the
airline at least 3 days prior to each journey. Airlines have the right to
change flight times and dates without notice.
* For details of the baggage allowances applicable for your class of service
and your chosen carrier please contact your consultant or the airline direct.

If the OP was given a similar document to sign PRIOR to handing over money, and didn't ask the TA about the baggage allowances, is the TA responsible? I suspect not.

 

[fjc]

The travel agent should have pointed this out as it will drive the net cost of the QATAR ticket much higher than the other carriers and that is theft by trick in my book!...beware QATAR airlines (and poorly informed travel agents).

Perhaps a bit unfair on Qatar. My sister (who flies os at least once a year to attend conferences) has just flown back from Turkey via Qatar airlines. Said it was great, apart from having to move around the airport a bit. She and hubby will fly with them again.

 

[medhead]

I still think it depends on what the customer told the travel agent what his needs were. Go in and ask them for the cheapest price for a flight to London and not mention that 3Kg is a major issue in luggage, then if they found the cheapest flight they could, then they did their job

It is up to the customer to ensure that any special modifiers are mentioned; it is not as if 3Kg is a large amount nor is the allowance particularly odd; the travel agents are not psychic

Yes of course. The more I think about this the more I'm not sure. Maybe except that I wouldn't have purchased even from a TA without checking the details.

 

[mosanator]

If your mum is 85, and I assume her partner similar I would suggest actually making sure that her/their bags are as light as possible.

Yeah thats exactly what I was thinking. You also might even consider ask for assistance. My dear old mum (77 at the time) asked for assistance last time she went and reckoned she felt like royalty even fly whY.

At 85 they would have no issue getting assistance.

 

[kamchatsky]

Yeah thats exactly what I was thinking. You also might even consider ask for assistance. My dear old mum (77 at the time) asked for assistance last time she went and reckoned she felt like royalty even fly whY.

At 85 they would have no issue getting assistance.

+1 on this. Last thing airlines want is "elderly suffer on plane" news. So airlines will definitely trying to help, and light is a good thing.

 

[drewbles]

+1 good TAs charge a fee, and are worth it.

My TA *only* charges a fee on O class QF domestic fares and AA fares ($20 per ticket). Anything else there is no fee.

Good TA's minimize fees as they are good and have repeat clientele to not need charging one off fees due to low turn over.

 

[jackcollins1960]

Just to fill in the blanks (and quell speculation)

1. I travel a lot…but it is almost always complex itineraries and almost always J class so I don’t think much about luggage.
2. I usually book it all myself NOT through a TA and so I look into the fine details thoroughly as I have had plenty of experience with TA’s and complex itineraries in the past.
3. When I do fly economy sectors it is almost always with One World alliance partners …so as far as I am aware the “Norm” in economy IS 23KG. If you noted I listed many many airlines whose minimum is 23KG earlier in this thread…and yes most were “One World”. So I have learned NOT to take the standards I am used to on one world as industry norm for full service carriers…for that piece of education I thank you!
4. Next I used a TA because I did not have time to research all the detail this time….and if you understand my perspective (on baggage norms from point above) this was a simple itinerary.
5. My brief to the TA? Well it was that at 85 I wanted my mum to have the least stops…please recommend the options. The options came back as Emirates, Etihad and QATAR all 1 stop. So my next question was “Are there any significant differences between them” (as they were all within $100 of each other). It was at that point I would have expected the Baggage issue to be pointed out…instead I was told how Emirates have “..gone off a little lately..” and that Etihad and QATAR were both great !

So perhaps it was my fault? Or perhaps the TA’s…depends on your perspective I travel a lot (eg 2010 MEL-LAX-EGE return , MEL LAX LGW. JFK-MIA. MIA-LAX-MEL then MEL-NAN return and in 6 weeks its MEL-SYD-HKG-LHR-MAN. MAN-LHR-JFK. JFK-LAX-HNL. HNL-SYD-MEL…just to paint the picture). And I made the mistake of taking for granted what I Knew to be correct.
So, when next you book a flight…knowing that your chosen carrier has always allowed you 20KG of luggage…will YOU check the fine print? Or would you expect your TA to point out that your chosen carrier NOW has a 10KG free limit?

So, the moral is…everything you know is only valid for your LAST flight

 

[Dave Noble]

So, the moral is…everything you know is only valid for your LAST flight

Sounds more to me that the moral is to never assume

I wouldn't call 3Kg allowance a significant difference and the agent did advise that in her opinion that EK wasn't as good . That is a subjective call though.

Has the passenger actually stated a need to take that extra 3 Kg. If it is that critical, then take the hit on the cancellation policy and rebook on EK

 

[jackcollins1960]

its 6KG difference across the both of them (or 6 x$114 = $684.00)...and I would call that a significant difference!!! but there is the difference between our understanding of what is the norm (20kg Vs 23kg)...I can accept that..can you?

 

[Dave Noble]

its 6KG difference across the both of them (or 6 x$114 = $684.00)...and I would call that a significant difference!!! but there is the difference between our understanding of what is the norm (20kg Vs 23kg)...I can accept that..can you?

*only* if they have a need to take 23Kg. Do the passengers say that they absolutely need every Kg?

If so, then will prossibly be better off cancelling and rebooking with EK

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Technically speaking, a 3kg difference would be significant as it is more than 5% difference :mrgreen:

However - if i asked a TA to tell me if there were any significant differences I would not expect to be told about a 3kg baggage difference. i would expect to be told:

• if they didn't provide special assistance
• don't (or can't) provide seats next to each other for my party
• were a dry airline
• had long stop-overs
• departed or arrived at different airports (Gatwick vs Heathrow)
• did not provide free food / drink for a long haul international flight
• did not provide FF points
• provded anything less than 20kg of luggage for economy (for example a JQ lite fare offers no baggage, nor does air asia unless you pay)
• did not provide inflight entertainment
• had a seat pitch any less than 31'
• had irregular seating (for example EK 777s with 10 across instead of standard 9)

there might be other things too that I would expect them to tell me (can't think off the top of my head) - but 3kg wouldn't be in those categories.