Australian women on Qatar flight internally examined

[Guvner]

Evidently it’s convenient for the Fed Govt to point fingers at Qatar Airways when it suits a particular agenda. This is the same Govt which suffered no shortage of politicians breathlessly jumping on the Women’s World Cup bandwagon, barging their way in front of the world‘s media, and claiming it to be a watershed moment in Australian women’s sport. I guess the fact that Qatar was a major sponsor was lost on those same politicians.

 

[Tiki]

Back in the late 80's I was transiting AMS and was strip-searched. I had done nothing wrong, was coming back from a backpacking trip and had a passport full of stamps from countries in Europe and the Middle East. Having recently watched a few episodes of Banged up Abroad, I think I must have been profiled as a drug smuggler. I was searched literally everywhere by a female officer in a private room. After finding nothing on me, she escorted me to the gate and watched until I boarded the plane back to the USA. At the time I was more scared I would be arrested for something. I had never heard of drug mules at the time and I guess I was lucky no one had planted anything on me. But it never occurred to me to equated the search with sexual assault or rape. It was uncomfortable and nerve wracking but no more sexual than a doctors exam.

I didn't let this experience deter me and went on to spend most of the 90's backpacking around the world - South America, Asia, Africa. I don't even think about the incident anymore, let alone suffer life long trauma. But I do take care to keep my carry on backpack with me at all times, more because of Schapelle Corby and Banged Up Abroad than what happened in the 80's. I had never heard of profiling back then but pretty sure that is what happened, a young woman traveling alone. Since then I have flown KLM and been to AMS a few times. Never occurred to me to blame either the airline or the city. But you could say I was not a big fan of the police!

And that baby's mother is guilty! No way could she conceal a pregnancy from her employers and no way she could have stayed in Qatar without a work visa of some sort. She was not raped, the baby's father was apparently identified. They had options - get married, fly somewhere where abortion is allowed. Even leave the baby anonymously in a hospital bathroom where at least she would have been found by medical staff. Then how does she smuggle a baby without a passport into the departure lounge? Logically this would have taken some advance planning just to get past airport security. Surely she couldn't have given birth in a ladies toilet all alone with no one hearing anything? Cut her own umbilical cord? And airlines don't accept passengers with such an advanced pregnancy, how does she get a ticket and check in? There would have been cleaning crew at least! That whole story is suss as hell! She obviously doesn't have money to go after, Qatar has the deep pockets but she set the whole thing in motion.

 

[Princess Fiona]

And yet you are happy to go to the USA where you are denied an abortion even though the pregnancy resulted from incest or rape.

No that’s actually a state issue not at all a USA issue and again is a “what about ism” not remotely connected to the topic of this thread.

 

[get me outta here]

Looking back over this thread from the beginning to now it is sad how empathy, blame, people having inside knowledge about who did what to whom and what 'about ism,' has deteriorated.

 

[MARTINE]

No that’s actually a state issue not at all a USA issue and again is a “what about ism” not remotely connected to the topic of this thread.

Looking back over this thread from the beginning to now it is sad how empathy, blame, people having inside knowledge about who did what to whom and what 'about ism,' has deteriorated.

I too have looked back including my own initial comments.

What happened was abhorrent and I agree with @Princess Fiona that it has gone off topic.

Perhaps - and it is a relevant travel topic - a separate thread where pax discuss (respectfully) issues that factor into their decision making about to travel (or not) to various countries?

I am happy to own that cognitive dissonance is relevant. I travelled to Russia (never affected as a wealthy western tourist but knowing of the abuses that took place). I get that.

I think it inappropriate of me to criticize others who choose to fly Qatar - even though I never would. They are not promoting or advocating what took place.

So my input…
However, I doubt a thread based on personal values driven travel choices would not soon degenerate as these forums do not allow for nuanced discussion that can occur freely face to face with people who know you (and you know your own blind spots)

 

[serfty]

[moderator hat]

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It has been a controversial topic. For now it will be locked from further comment.

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[moderator hat]

 

[jakeseven7]

It sounds more military/security involvement than QR staff. Whatever, it's ghastly.

That’s not correct, if you go through how was involved, QR was heavily involved as an entity - and that is why it is having such a heavy presence this decision. Even if it didn’t the state and Qatar are all wound up together, so ultimately it doesn’t really matter - it’s all very incestuous due the nature of that country - and again, circles back to the impact on this decision.

 

[Lynda2475]

I mean this genuinely when I say, kudos to you for avoiding Chinese made good as that aligns with your values. Personally, I think it would be nearly impossible to actually do so. Many of the components in your phone/computer are likely made in China. Really, any electronic device, like a fridge, microwave, car etc is going to have parts made in China. Now yes, I'm sure there will be the odd example that doesn't.

May be impossible to completely avoid but very easy when it comes to food where country of origin and % Aussie ingredients are required on label. To ensure food security, it is always best to support local growers and Australia's superior food safety standards.

FYI most of my electronics are Samsung they closed all Chinese manufacturing in 2019 (and the items I have from them before that were not made in China) their factories are now only in Vietnam, India, Brazil, Indonesia and South Korea.

For travel though extremely easy to avoid contributing tourist/business dollars to regimes you fundamentally are at odds with - don't go or transit there and don't fly their airlines.

Many things in the world have shades of grey but to me there is no grey when it comes to QR its black and white - staff working for their companies at the airport forced the passengers off the planes, conducted the illegal physical assaults. They are on the black list.

Like many others here I do not believe that increasing QR flights will bring down airfares and even QR admit this.

As to whether it would materially increase tourism we would need to see the breakdown of people who fly QR to/from Aus.

If its just facilitating more overseas travel by Aussies then that is taking money out of our economy; vs if materially bringing more foreigners in. The ME is NOT a huge market for Aussie tourism, so it comes down to how many Europeans would choose a ME transit over an Asian one. Lets see the stats.

I also find it amusing that so many here think there has to be only 1 single reason for the ministers decision. Few government decisions are decided on one factor, its clear the assault is a contributing factor; as were the other objections (someone other than QF also lodged an objection).

 

[jase05]

don't go or transit there and don't fly their airlines.

One of my Uncle’s says the same thing of QR yet flys on BA every week and when I told him that QR are the largest shareholders of BA’s parent company and this every dollar he spends on BA goes to QR he went pretty silent

 

[Lynda2475]

every dollar he spends on BA goes to QR

Although that isn't strictly accurate.

Far from every dollar spent goes to QR, they are 25% shareholder of IAG so they only get a 25% share of the profits returned via dividends. The larger portion of that $1 goes towards paying the UK staff, other operating costs and taxes; and the other 75% shareholders.

But a good reminder to look deeper than the name on the tail.

 

[justinbrett]

One of my Uncle’s says the same thing of QR yet flys on BA every week and when I told him that QR are the largest shareholders of BA’s parent company and this every dollar he spends on BA goes to QR he went pretty silent

Don't tell him Qatar owns Harrods...

 

[Quickstatus]

Don't tell him Qatar owns Harrods...

And Qatar investment Authority and QR own stakes in SYD airport via GIP..
And Qatari companies own some wind farms in Australia.

Bit hard to boycott SYD and electricity coming out of the powerpoint.

 

[Quickstatus]

The issue is whether they should be given more access on the extremely tenuous claim that it is of more benefit to Australians than not.

That's why I said - let the travelling public decide and make that choice.

 

[Pushka]

No one is stopping the travelling public flying QR, they already fly here. And given availability of tickets its not like their existing flights are 100% full.

The issue is whether they should be given more access on the extremely tenuous claim that it is of more benefit to Australians than not.

The flights I've taken in last 12 months certainly were.

 

[Lynda2475]

That's why I said - let the travelling public decide and make that choice.

I don't think the travelling public should be controlling airport access, and how would you propose to get a consensus? As I would certainly oppose granting more access.

 

[RooFlyer]

And Qatar investment Authority and QR own stakes in SYD airport via GIP..
And Qatari companies own some wind farms in Australia.

Bit hard to boycott SYD and electricity coming out of the powerpoint.

Hang on ... so users of Sydney Airport are feeding the coffers of the Qataris? <Purses lips>

 

[oz_mark]

And Qatar investment Authority and QR own stakes in SYD airport via GIP..

Qatar has about a 4% stake in SACL.

 

[Lynda2475]

maybe win the court case

That would be a terrible injustice, the fact that people here would hope for that says they care not one iota for the victims.

 

[Quickstatus]

feeding the coffers of the Qataris

Meh Just a little. But Quickstatus et al super fund has stakes in 3 of the investment vehicles underpinning SACL. Thank you for your patronage

 

[Quickstatus]

the fact that people here would hope for that says they care not one iota for the victims.

I actually think the only people who want Qatar to win are the Defendants. I actually want the plaintiffs to win and I dare say we all here think the same. However what could have been a quiet behind the scenes quid pro quo request by the Aust Govt has now turned into a dogs breakfast with the Govt ina no win situation. Sometimes shouting from the rooftop does not work