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Australian women on Qatar flight internally examined

BAM1748

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I'm confused by the attacks against Qatar Airways. Where is the reporting - let alone the evidence - that the airline had a hand to play in this event?

For those who advocating a boycott, I trust you are all 100% satisfied that your coffee and bar of chocolate aren't produced using child labour. And your pantry isn't full of products made with palm oil harvesting by depleting forests and endangering species. And your cheap outfit from H&M and your runners from Adidas weren't manufactured by people earning a few cents a day. And that your iPhone was in part together by well-paid, nicely-benefitted labourers in China ...

I share the outrage at what has transpired but think some perspective may be needed.

Qatar Airways has the same parent entity as everything else there, the Qatar Govt. That's only place the average person can hit the Qatar Govt, by not using the services of anything owned by them.

Danger While you are trying compare this with every other exploitation issue around the word, yes, the best place to start with issues is one at a time and the issues you can act on yourself, the issues you raise are all worthy and I have plenty of things on that list and more I don't buy for that very reason. As AFFers we fly, we stop flying with Qatar Airways that's the stand we can make here on this forum, if I don't want to buy an Chinese fridge I'll post that message on Fridge Lovers Forum (I made that up before anyone goes searching).

But if people don't take a stand on something then will anyone ever take a stand on anything. Using the fact there are other problems in other countries does not excuse the Qatar Govt for what happened.
 

Daver6

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I don’t believe so - not according to the article I have just read, which also says that British and French women were also assaulted.


Surprised Macron hasn't piped up on this if French nationals were also sexually assaulted.
 

bcworld

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An actual CX pilot, or just someone claiming to be?
Someone with 15,000 posts and 14 years of membership on a forum...so not someone who joined just to troll a thread.
 

Guvner

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1000 posts a year. That’s a fairly enthusiastic contribution. Unsurprising they’re opinionated.
 
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Bell21

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My 20 year old daughter was travelling to Europe earlier this year on QF points and had to choose whether to transit via doha or Dubai from memory - she chose Dubai simply because we were a little more familiar with it as a transit point - any thoughts on whether a similiar trangression could potentially occur there? (Ie Are UAE slightly less strict re sharia law?) - I ask because Dubai is such a common transit point for many of us.
 

Pushka

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My 20 year old daughter was travelling to Europe earlier this year on QF points and had to choose whether to transit via doha or Dubai from memory - she chose Dubai simply because we were a little more familiar with it as a transit point - any thoughts on whether a similiar trangression could potentially occur there? (Ie Are UAE slightly less strict re sharia law?) - I ask because Dubai is such a common transit point for many of us.
I've been through both. The only time my hand luggage was opened and thoroughly searched for - god knows what - was in Doha as we were about to board. I didn't give much thought at the time even though husbands luggage wasn't touched. Maybe it means something. Maybe random bad luck. Food for thought.
 
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My 20 year old daughter was travelling to Europe earlier this year on QF points and had to choose whether to transit via doha or Dubai from memory - she chose Dubai simply because we were a little more familiar with it as a transit point - any thoughts on whether a similiar trangression could potentially occur there? (Ie Are UAE slightly less strict re sharia law?) - I ask because Dubai is such a common transit point for many of us.
I was quite shocked at this because we spent 3 days in Doha last year and found the people very friendly and charming. We felt totally safe. I think it is a wake up call that you are vulnerable in any country where the customs and attitudes are so different.
 

Pushka

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I was quite shocked at this because we spent 3 days in Doha last year and found the people very friendly and charming. We felt totally safe. I think it is a wake up call that you are vulnerable in any country where the customs and attitudes are so different.
And once it goes 'bad' it goes very bad even if you are not in any way a part of the situation.
 
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MEL_Traveller

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My 20 year old daughter was travelling to Europe earlier this year on QF points and had to choose whether to transit via doha or Dubai from memory - she chose Dubai simply because we were a little more familiar with it as a transit point - any thoughts on whether a similiar trangression could potentially occur there? (Ie Are UAE slightly less strict re sharia law?) - I ask because Dubai is such a common transit point for many of us.

I'm not sure this is an issue to do with any particular type of law. The event leading up to the incident is prima facie going to be a crime in a great number of countries, Australia in included.

There is some suggestion the airport staff acted outside the law in their actions that night. That could happen just about anywhere in the world. However, feeling enabled to speak up, or seek a review of actions at the time is possibly going to be easier in some countries rather than others.
 

BAM1748

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Whilst I agree the event is absolutelty outrageous, for many Australians currently stranded overseas due to Australian government caps limiting international arrivals, Qatar airlines is their best chance or actually getting home. Banning Qatar airlines would be devastating to these Australians who have been trying to get home for many months.

Qatar Airways is still flying funded by its Govt, however, this does not mean we should let our principals, integrity and values slip because of it. For the very reason you state, that unsuspecting females are flying, we need to call them out for their behavior.
 
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spudseamus

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Utterly appalled at this occurrence! Yes I was considering a flight to Ireland to scatter my late wife’s ashes and was going use this airline because of the direct flight but I already had reservations about the cultural attitude on gay people as I have a gay son but this has defined my thinking . No coming back from this no matter the apology!
 

Tiki

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My 20 year old daughter was travelling to Europe earlier this year on QF points and had to choose whether to transit via doha or Dubai from memory - she chose Dubai simply because we were a little more familiar with it as a transit point - any thoughts on whether a similiar trangression could potentially occur there? (Ie Are UAE slightly less strict re sharia law?) - I ask because Dubai is such a common transit point for many of us.

I have used my QF points on both EK and QR and AA or BA miles on QR when traveling to Turkey over the past few years multiple times. I generally build in along enough layover to take the public transport to the souk (I am married but sometimes travel alone) for some quick shopping. Sometimes I stay overnight to avoid arriving in Istanbul completely exhausted after 16 hours in economy seats. I have never felt unsafe in either country. But I am also a well-experienced traveler and had been to over 180 countries before your daughter was even born. I know how to handle myself and I accept that some aspects of travel hold some risks.

No one can predict the future but after the worldwide outcry over what happened, I think the airports will probably implement a protocol in case something like that ever happens again that will not involve invasive personal searches. I didn't know that DNA testing had advanced enough to give such quick results, only just read this above. I did a DNA test on Ancestry.com for geneology and ethnicity and it took over 2 weeks to get the results. But hopefully airports will now keep rapid tests on hand.

I can imagine discovering the attempted murder of a newborn baby would have caused panic amongst the security guards who discovered her and their first reaction might have been "Crime committed, find the culprit". But they made very bad choices in HOW they went about trying to find the culprit. At the very least, these guards should be sacked for incompetency and all others given proper training. Properly trained guards should not panic even in extreme situations and there should be supervisors on hand to manage investigations and take responsibility for doing these bearing in mind basic human rights.

I am not an expert but I think they should have been more transparent and used observation skills to try to narrow down the culprit. Firstly use the manifests to try to narrow down the suspect list. A lot of passengers could be eliminated based on age, married/traveling with spouse, ethnicity in relation to the baby. Then send people trained in body language observations to board the planes, tell the truth about what happened and observe the reactions of the remaining suspects. The body language and facial expressions could give her away. Then offer choices to the women on how they can exclude themselves from the suspect list (they had not given birth within x hours). Let them choose between examination by a female doctor/nurse, DNA test, blood test or whatever methods worked.

Maybe people who have experience can suggest how the investigation of attempted murder of a baby can be conducted without violating human rights? I am only guessing really, I don't know.
 

Danielb56

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Reported today on several news outlets.

Utterly horrific. Totally inexcusable. Can’t imagine the distress.

Surely DNA cheek swabs could have been used instead if they were that suspicious.

Will never fly Qatar or transit Doha ever again.
My issue here is that the UN should be saying something and bring Qatar to task on this matter but as usual they are a useless bureaucratic monolith that sits on its hands and does absolutely nothing.
In 2016, I was travelling back from Europe and had a 3-4 night stopover in Qatar. On arrival I spent 3 1/2- 4 hours at the airport going from one room to another in isolation and no talk from anyone on as to why. Eventually I spoke to the head Immigration officer who was very nice and the issue was around my Cambodian visa (go figure). They thought why does he travel to Cambodia a lot (my work then took me there about 4 times per year) and the visa was not on regular visa quality paper but on normal printed paper. I explained the process on how they do it. In the end he was fine but he said that those under him wanted to black ban me which would have taken in over 20 countries....all for nothing. Only if they just talked to me in the first place...they let me in and all was good...I have never had an issue anywhere else in the world including other Arab nations...I think I will avoid Hamad Int Airport for a while...
 

Danielb56

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My 20 year old daughter was travelling to Europe earlier this year on QF points and had to choose whether to transit via doha or Dubai from memory - she chose Dubai simply because we were a little more familiar with it as a transit point - any thoughts on whether a similiar trangression could potentially occur there? (Ie Are UAE slightly less strict re sharia law?) - I ask because Dubai is such a common transit point for many of us.
Hi. I just posted something on Qatar and an incident I had there where I was detained for 3 1/2 - 4 hours on arrival back from Europe. I had a 3-4 night stopover in Doha. They sent me from one room to another without a word for over 3 - 4 hours. In the end the top Immigration official spoke to me who was more sensible than the rest. They had an issue with my Cambodian Visa (as I travelled there often for work) as it was I. Often. 2. Visa issued on regular printing paper and not high quality visa paper. I explained the process on what happens and in the end he was fine. The lower ranked officials wanted to put a black ban on me which would have been registered in over 20 countries …all for nothing. Never had an issue in Dubai not even a question...nor in Egypt, nor in Jordan, Turkey etc. My tip is go where you know that works....Dubai, especially with your 20 yr old daughter.

In the end they let me in and no further issue. I must say it left a bad taste in my mouth.
 

Bandicoot

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Mar 1, 2007
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Appalling. Nauseating. It's news to me that Minister Payne talked directly to her counterpart. That is not what I heard on RN yesterday. I'm deeply disappointed but not surprised by our government first concealing the incident, then pretending to hold Qatar to account with public bluster. Once again the human rights of women are sacrificed for geopolitical convenience. It is difficult to not feel that we women don't really matter. Not really. I feel like wrecking the joint. I was never comfortable transitting through the Middle East - for good reason. If I ever again fly internationally it will not be via the Middle East or on a Middle Eastern airline.
 

Bandicoot

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Mar 1, 2007
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An invitation to Qatari turned dinner turned down by 2 MPs of the PJCIS (spelled out below):

View attachment 231956
Q. Why did it take so long for the invitation to be declined? A. It took that long for the proverbial to hit the public fan. I guess it is better late than never but the delay is galling and speaks volumes about our government's attitudes towards women.
 

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