Australian state border restrictions

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What frustrates me about this whole thing is COVID ain't nothing new. We've had it for over two years now and we know a lot more about the virus, we've got vaccines and now many treatments that greatly reduce the risk of hospitalizations, testing is ubiquitous (can even be done at home), and of course we've got P2 respirators and other protective equipment to prevent those at risk from catching COVID.

As someone who is amongst the vulnerable in the community (immunocompromised with an autoimmune illness) with a family overseas I've got a lot to lose if I get COVID. I understand that risk more intimately than your average WA politician including Prime Minister McGowan. And yet I have moved on with my life, I travel every couple of weeks inter-state and in a couple months long-haul domestically to HNL and YYZ. I've done my bit and received my two doses of vaccine plus a Pfizer booster back in early November. In 2 months time I will likely received my 4th dose of vaccine (Novavax). I wear protective equipment (e.g. P2 respirator and safety glasses) when I'm in public/travelling and take measures to reduce exposure to COVID (e.g. boarding last, taking a shower at the lounge, booking front row seats, etc.). I'd much rather live in a world where I have the choice to go out and do what I want with protective measures than being trapped at home with a stay-at-home order or quarantine.

-RooFlyer88
 
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One other thought I'd leave in this thread. There has been a lot of talk about living with COVID. There's an implicit assumption in that argument, that we should spare the elderly and vulnerable in the community just to say we've opened everything up. That's fundamentally wrong. Yes, we may no longer have the luxury of keeping COVID out of our communities but we can take measures to deal with it for those who are vulnerable in our communities. Why on god's green earth aren't we providing N95 respirators, rapid antigen tests, etc. for those vulnerable in our community? If you're in a nursing home and have people over to visit, meet them outside where we know COVID is less likely to spread than indoors. Of course we can also improve ventilation in retirement homes which would have the added benefit of removing airborne viruses that do a number on seniors (e.g., flu, pneumonia). Why aren't the airlines providing socially distant seating in their cabin (when available) for those vulnerable? Why aren't the vulnerable in our community not being given COVID-19 treatments the moment they test positive which we know greatly reduces hospitalization and death versus giving it out when they're in the hospital.

Again, there is a lot our governments can do to really deal with COVID now. There is absolutely no reason why we should be seeing the hospitalization and death numbers in NSW or elsewhere as high as they are.

-RooFlyer88
 

antycbr

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One other thought I'd leave in this thread. There has been a lot of talk about living with COVID. There's an implicit assumption in that argument, that we should spare the elderly and vulnerable in the community just to say we've opened everything up. That's fundamentally wrong. Yes, we may no longer have the luxury of keeping COVID out of our communities but we can take measures to deal with it for those who are vulnerable in our communities. Why on god's green earth aren't we providing N95 respirators, rapid antigen tests, etc. for those vulnerable in our community? If you're in a nursing home and have people over to visit, meet them outside where we know COVID is less likely to spread than indoors. Of course we can also improve ventilation in retirement homes which would have the added benefit of removing airborne viruses that do a number on seniors (e.g., flu, pneumonia). Why aren't the airlines providing socially distant seating in their cabin (when available) for those vulnerable? Why aren't the vulnerable in our community not being given COVID-19 treatments the moment they test positive which we know greatly reduces hospitalization and death versus giving it out when they're in the hospital.

Again, there is a lot our governments can do to really deal with COVID now. There is absolutely no reason why we should be seeing the hospitalization and death numbers in NSW or elsewhere as high as they are.

-RooFlyer88
I look forward to you giving up your front row seat to the vulnerable. If they are that vulnerable they need to take the measures themselves. Much of what you write about happens where possible. However we can’t keep everyone alive indefinitely.

Also, have you asked the elderly and vulnerable what they want? Have you considered quality of life or is it only duration?

We have given people two years now.
 

HappyFlyerFamily

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One other thought I'd leave in this thread. There has been a lot of talk about living with COVID. There's an implicit assumption in that argument, that we should spare the elderly and vulnerable in the community just to say we've opened everything up. That's fundamentally wrong. Yes, we may no longer have the luxury of keeping COVID out of our communities but we can take measures to deal with it for those who are vulnerable in our communities. Why on god's green earth aren't we providing N95 respirators, rapid antigen tests, etc. for those vulnerable in our community? If you're in a nursing home and have people over to visit, meet them outside where we know COVID is less likely to spread than indoors. Of course we can also improve ventilation in retirement homes which would have the added benefit of removing airborne viruses that do a number on seniors (e.g., flu, pneumonia). Why aren't the airlines providing socially distant seating in their cabin (when available) for those vulnerable? Why aren't the vulnerable in our community not being given COVID-19 treatments the moment they test positive which we know greatly reduces hospitalization and death versus giving it out when they're in the hospital.

Again, there is a lot our governments can do to really deal with COVID now. There is absolutely no reason why we should be seeing the hospitalization and death numbers in NSW or elsewhere as high as they are.

-RooFlyer88
$
 
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And what is the cost to Medicare for having all those patients in the hospital and ICU? What is the cost to having grocery store workers and truckers have to isolate for a week? What is the cost to the Sydney economy of having public transport running at a reduced schedule thanks to Transport for NSW drivers having to isolate? What is the cost to society of having teachers and kids isolate due to a COVID outbreak at school? Much of these risks can now be reduced greatly by providing the vulnerable and critical workers with a box of P2 respirators you can get for $25 at a Bunnings which I suspect the Commonwealth can get for substantially less. The United States is making 400 million N95 respirators available to the public at pharmacies for free and are offering free COVID tests by mail. Meanwhile, I'm lucky if I can find a Rapid Antigen Test for under $100.

-RooFlyer88
 

clifford

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And what is the cost to Medicare for having all those patients in the hospital and ICU? What is the cost to having grocery store workers and truckers have to isolate for a week? What is the cost to the Sydney economy of having public transport running at a reduced schedule thanks to Transport for NSW drivers having to isolate? What is the cost to society of having teachers and kids isolate due to a COVID outbreak at school? Much of these risks can now be reduced greatly by providing the vulnerable and critical workers with a box of P2 respirators you can get for $25 at a Bunnings which I suspect the Commonwealth can get for substantially less. The United States is making 400 million N95 respirators available to the public at pharmacies for free and are offering free COVID tests by mail. Meanwhile, I'm lucky if I can find a Rapid Antigen Test for under $100.

-RooFlyer88
This is a refreshing view. I thought most of the posters on this thread were of the let it rip variety.

But as has been said many times, adverse health issues also hit the bottom line of many businesses.
 
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This is a refreshing view. I thought most of the posters on this thread were of the let it rip variety.

But as has been said many times, adverse health issues also hit the bottom line of many businesses.
Regardless of what approach the government takes (e.g. let er' rip vs full-lockdown as in China) we the tax-payer are on the hook for all of this. The real question is what are the outcomes from all of this? Ideally, we'd like to say, yeah we spent billions of dollars but we kept the deaths to a minimum and the impact to society (e.g., closed borders, unemployed workers in the travel, tourism and hospitality industry). I remember last year's lockdown in Sydney and how big of a mess the whole thing was. Stay-at-home orders that did very little to eliminate COVID in the community (only vaccination pushed those case numbers down), high hospitalizations, and of course businesses and society disrupted for months at a time. Had we made P2 (N95) respirators, rapid antigen tests available, and kicked the vaccination push into overdrive, one wonders if we could've just ridden the whole wave out stay-at-home order free?

-RooFlyer88
 

kyle

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Lol
The AMA blows whichever way the wind goes. The audacity of the AMA today to criticise the decision when for the past few weeks they have been calling for a delayed opening! They got exactly what they wanted!
I thought I read it wrong when AMA was criticising the delayed opening.
 

Pushka

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As someone on a different board noted, you can get in to see a terminally ill relative on compassionate grounds but by the time you do the quarantine they may well have died and if not, certainly shortens any time that could be spent with them. Just wrong.
It's obscene. What person is going to certify impending death with a 14 day 'grace period' to enable quarantine. And likely that would not be seen as impending death anyway. Life (death) doesn't work according to these rules.

What frustrates me about this whole thing is COVID ain't nothing new. We've had it for over two years now and we know a lot more about the virus, we've got vaccines and now many treatments that greatly reduce the risk of hospitalizations, testing is ubiquitous (can even be done at home), and of course we've got P2 respirators and other protective equipment to prevent those at risk from catching COVID.

As someone who is amongst the vulnerable in the community (immunocompromised with an autoimmune illness) with a family overseas I've got a lot to lose if I get COVID. I understand that risk more intimately than your average WA politician including Prime Minister McGowan. And yet I have moved on with my life, I travel every couple of weeks inter-state and in a couple months long-haul domestically to HNL and YYZ. I've done my bit and received my two doses of vaccine plus a Pfizer booster back in early November. In 2 months time I will likely received my 4th dose of vaccine (Novavax). I wear protective equipment (e.g. P2 respirator and safety glasses) when I'm in public/travelling and take measures to reduce exposure to COVID (e.g. boarding last, taking a shower at the lounge, booking front row seats, etc.). I'd much rather live in a world where I have the choice to go out and do what I want with protective measures than being trapped at home with a stay-at-home order or quarantine.

-RooFlyer88
When a politician or unelected bureaucrat makes my life decisions in my 'best interests' when we have mitigated all the risks then it's a screwed up world.
 

Danger

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13 December 2021

Media release

WA to proceed with safe transition plan from February 5, 2022
Premier McGowan and Health Minister Cook

Safe transition date locked in for first Saturday in February ...

Having achieved the 80 per cent vaccination rate, the locked-in transition date is based on the latest projections ...

WA's current zero-COVID environment and high vaccination rate will help deliver the softest landing ...

WA's unique position of zero-COVID and a 90 per cent vaccination rate means border controls can ease with minimal community restrictions compared to other jurisdictions ...

Comments attributed to Premier Mark McGowan
"Today is a momentous day. Western Australia will safely ease its hard border controls on Saturday, February 5 and re-connect with the rest of the country and the world.

"That transition date is locked in - and is based on our expert public health advice."

Comments attributed to Health Minister Roger Cook
"WA's health system is prepared as we expand the health workforce and bring online more than 530 hospital beds by October next year.

"The McGowan Government has invested heavily in the health system and the health workforce and we are ready for next year as we safely ease our hard border controls."

[My emphasis.]
 

drron

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One other thought I'd leave in this thread. There has been a lot of talk about living with COVID. There's an implicit assumption in that argument, that we should spare the elderly and vulnerable in the community just to say we've opened everything up. That's fundamentally wrong. Yes, we may no longer have the luxury of keeping COVID out of our communities but we can take measures to deal with it for those who are vulnerable in our communities. Why on god's green earth aren't we providing N95 respirators, rapid antigen tests, etc. for those vulnerable in our community? If you're in a nursing home and have people over to visit, meet them outside where we know COVID is less likely to spread than indoors. Of course we can also improve ventilation in retirement homes which would have the added benefit of removing airborne viruses that do a number on seniors (e.g., flu, pneumonia). Why aren't the airlines providing socially distant seating in their cabin (when available) for those vulnerable? Why aren't the vulnerable in our community not being given COVID-19 treatments the moment they test positive which we know greatly reduces hospitalization and death versus giving it out when they're in the hospital.

Again, there is a lot our governments can do to really deal with COVID now. There is absolutely no reason why we should be seeing the hospitalization and death numbers in NSW or elsewhere as high as they are.

-RooFlyer88
Things are and have been done but they are good news stories and so media and the talking head experts don't want to know about it. RATs were being used in NSW Aged Care facilities last August and the program has spread around the country. I know that such facilities near me in Tassie have been supplied with RATs though some turned down the supply as it is easier and cheaper just to lockdown. Others are not using them efficiently.

A couple of weeks ago A Current Affair ran an interview with Dr. Ian Norton. when I worked on the Sunshine Coast I knew him as a Noosa GP.He has gone on to much bigger things running a Global Emergency Medical response team. He issued pleas to Australian Governments to stock up on RATS. Only 1 Health Minister actually followed through on his advice.
The Australian Government is providing COVID-19 rapid antigen testing (RAT) to residential aged care facilities in Greater Sydney, to further protect aged care residents, workers and their families.


The program will begin on Monday, 16 August at the Uniting Bankstown Aged Care Facility, and then progressively roll out to other facilities who expressed their interest in participating.

The local Sunshine Coast News also recently interviewed him. On the Current Affair program he issued invitations to all State Health Ministers to speak to them about RATs.Although most received his proposal only a couple expressed interest but said they had to talk to their CHOs.They then came back saying they were not needed. Remember it is the States that are responsible for general health policy with the Commonwealth responsible for aged care.
So here is the Sunshins Coast interview.
Dr Norton said Australia missed the chance stock up on RATs before opening state borders.
“The main reason was because the State Governments were so anti-rapid antigen tests until only a few weeks ago, to be frank they actively blocked it,” he said.
“They did not want to talk about it, they didn’t want to talk to us about how to plan for it or how to disaster plan — because that’s our expertise
— they didn’t want to talk to the suppliers about putting in place stockpiles.


“So anyone who blames the suppliers for not having enough supply need to understand that the State Governments gave them no indication they would ever want to buy any of these things.


“So why would they bring in millions of dollars of stock that expires after 12 months when you have state departments telling you…we don’t want it.

So the real villians are each and every one of the State CHOs.
 
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13 December 2021

Media release

WA to proceed with safe transition plan from February 5, 2022
Premier McGowan and Health Minister Cook

Safe transition date locked in for first Saturday in February ...

Having achieved the 80 per cent vaccination rate, the locked-in transition date is based on the latest projections ...

WA's current zero-COVID environment and high vaccination rate will help deliver the softest landing ...

WA's unique position of zero-COVID and a 90 per cent vaccination rate means border controls can ease with minimal community restrictions compared to other jurisdictions ...

Comments attributed to Premier Mark McGowan
"Today is a momentous day. Western Australia will safely ease its hard border controls on Saturday, February 5 and re-connect with the rest of the country and the world.

"That transition date is locked in - and is based on our expert public health advice."

Comments attributed to Health Minister Roger Cook
"WA's health system is prepared as we expand the health workforce and bring online more than 530 hospital beds by October next year.

"The McGowan Government has invested heavily in the health system and the health workforce and we are ready for next year as we safely ease our hard border controls."

[My emphasis.]
I wonder if I could use this press release as my entry pass into WA in September? I mean we've got the Prime Minister of WA saying the transition date of February 5 locked in. Then again, I suppose they could argue that he didn't indicate what year that was! 😅
So the real villians are each and every one of the State CHOs.
I could've told you that ages ago! I can recall the Queensland CHO (now Governor of QLD) Jeannette Young said she'd rather see an 18 year old get COVID than risk getting the AstraZeneca jab. Absolute and total clowns the whole lot, especially if you're in a vulnerable group and trust your life to them. Ever since the beginning of the pandemic, I've done my own research be it for vaccines to other protective measures. I got jabbed back in early April before a single CHO had anything to say on that matter. Indeed, the Commonwealth didn't do a great job of making the jab accessible to me, with me having to scour through an Excel file buried in the Health Department's website that proves I was eligible at that time to receive my AstraZeneca shots, show it to my GP and to the Respiratory Clinic I ultimately got the jab at. Ditto for the booster in November. I have yet to see a single CHO wear a quality P2 (N95) respirator at any of these press conferences, never mind recommending it to residents who are at risk. Talk about role models! 🙄

-RooFlyer88
 

danflyer

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Does anyone have any idea if the following:
  • Returning Western Australians, with strong recent connections or direct legitimate family connections with WA;
Would include Western Australians who left WA after 5th and then attempted to return to WA? Some might think it would, others that is is aimed only those who are currently stranded interstate.

Speaking as a NSW resident planning to relocate to WA, and now having second thoughts given I may be stuck there indefinitely.
 
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Jenya

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Would include Western Australians who left WA after 5th and then attempted to return to WA?
I think they will be targeting WA's who left to East for Christmas in hope to came back freely after 5-th Feb.
Now they will have to show recent proof of residency, like a lease or rates notice, your driver's licence. As much as you can to prove you are a resident. Your vax certificate. Neg test result within 24hr And you will have to quarantine for 14 days.

I got WA driver license but my last WA's utility bill dated some year ago.
Might just fake last digit in PDF editor along with my December flight QF flight PER-BNE receipt, and try luck with G2G pass. That should be right
 

HappyFlyerFamily

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Does anyone have any idea if the following:
  • Returning Western Australians, with strong recent connections or direct legitimate family connections with WA;
Would include Western Australians who left WA after 5th and then attempted to return to WA? Some might think it would, others that is is aimed only those who are currently stranded interstate.

Speaking as a NSW resident planning to relocate to WA, and now having second thoughts given I may be stuck there indefinitely.

I think they will be targeting WA's who left to East for Christmas in hope to came back freely after 5-th Feb.
Now they will have to show recent proof of residency, like a lease or rates notice, your driver's licence. As much as you can to prove you are a resident. Your vax certificate. Neg test result within 24hr And you will have to quarantine for 14 days.

I got WA driver license but my last WA's utility bill dated some year ago.
Might just fake last digit in PDF editor along with my December flight QF flight PER-BNE receipt, and try luck with G2G pass. That should be right

So a loophole for any WA resident that wants to leave now??? But on the condition of 14 days quarantine on return. I know not most people's cup of tea, but a number said they were ok to do that.
 

jase05

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So a loophole for any WA resident that wants to leave now??? But on the condition of 14 days quarantine on return. I know not most people's cup of tea, but a number said they were ok to do that.
I don’t think so.
McGowan was mumbling and bumbling a lot but he seemed to indicate that this wouldn’t be a way for those to travel freely interstate and that they shouldn’t assume that a exemption would be granted for them
 
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