Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[jonboixxx]

is genuinely considered an acceptable reason for locking down an entire city.

No, it's not acceptable, especially as we should have learnt a lot over the last 12+ months. Instead, the political narrative is that they have "saved us further lockdown" or simply "saved us", all wrapped up in undisclosed "medical evidence" and stories of mutant strains.

 

[stryker]

councils and governments cry poor and "understaffed" despite being the highest funded in the world, and the public buys that as well

So what would you suggest? Another round of "austerity"?

Yes, really, we no doubt have the "highest funded" "councils and governments" in the world. Needs to be stripped back immediately, so everyone can enjoy less facilities/services.

Good call!

BTW, how's Gainsville at the moment?

 

[N860CR]

So what would you suggest? Another round of "austerity"?

Yes, really, we no doubt have the "highest funded" "councils and governments" in the world. Needs to be stripped back immediately, so everyone can enjoy less facilities/services.

Good call!

BTW, how's Gainsville at the moment?

Clearly hit a nerve with you

The point I was making is that it's ridiculous that we tolerate these extreme measures to coverup government incompetence. We seem to have an extreme tolerance for receiving poor service despite the enormous funding we as tax payers provide.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Not anymore. There has also to be a compelling reason for travel NOW. Changed in November.

Post automatically merged: Apr 26, 2021

And no restriction on flights from India as they come in through Doha on QR.

Isn’t there a new restriction if you fly to Australia from India but through a transit point, you now need to get a Covid test in the transit point?

 

[Pushka]

Isn’t there a new restriction if you fly to Australia from India but through a transit point, you now need to get a Covid test in the transit point?

I can't see that there is time tbh. It's usually just a couple of hours. And in Doha why would they bother with Aus regulations when they have a passenger in transit and they just want to move them through? SQ won't accept people from India currently so we know the source. Deters me from flying QR.

 

[drron]

And the recent MJA has an article that explains the Premiers wanting time for their Health services to cope.Health in Australia is stretched nation wide.

ED overcrowding, under-resourcing “worst in 30 years” - InSight+

Currently, our acute health care system -- emergency department and ICU -- is failing many who need it to be better, writes Simon Judkins

insightplus.mja.com.au

 

[dajop]

Isn’t there a new restriction if you fly to Australia from India but through a transit point, you now need to get a Covid test in the transit point?

I thought it was that you need the test to be conducted within 72hours of your flight that travels into Australia. So if transiting via DOH, DXB or somewhere else, that means within 48-66 hours of the flight departing India.

I can't believe that the Australian government are this naive to think that this is the problem here. And not fake testing certificates.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I can't see that there is time tbh. It's usually just a couple of hours. And in Doha why would they bother with Aus regulations when they have a passenger in transit and they just want to move them through? SQ won't accept people from India currently so we know the source. Deters me from flying QR.

Practicalities aside, the requirement would be that the airline can't carry a passenger into Australia without a rapid test in transit. So the Aussie law would have effect that way.

 

[Pushka]

Practicalities aside, the requirement would be that the airline can't carry a passenger into Australia without a rapid test in transit. So the Aussie law would have effect that way.

That's the theory. Is it happening? 15 in a day in a small arrival destination. I think not.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I can't see that there is time tbh. It's usually just a couple of hours. And in Doha why would they bother with Aus regulations when they have a passenger in transit and they just want to move them through? SQ won't accept people from India currently so we know the source. Deters me from flying QR.

This is what is announced

PM restricts travel from India after McGowan warning

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has announced flights from India will be scaled back by 30 per cent, with the country in the midst of a crippling coronavirus outbreak.

thewest.com.au

If you have been in a high risk country e.g. India in the last 14 days, then you need to get tested in the last point of embarkation before boarding the flight to Australia. So India, Doha, Aus would mean you need a test in Doha. I suspect it hadn’t been implemented yet.

edit - think I am wrong there - looks like it’s just 72 hours. It does mean any stop for a few days after leaving India would require a test at the embarkation point.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I thought it was that you need the test to be conducted within 72hours of your flight that travels into Australia. So if transiting via DOH, DXB or somewhere else, that means within 48-66 hours of the flight departing India.

I can't believe that the Australian government are this naive to think that this is the problem here. And not fake testing certificates.

Edit you could be right - reading it again

I thought they had to get it in the port of embarkation.

 

[Flying mermaid]

So before if you flew India doh Aus did you not need to get a test - is that the loophole they are closing?

 

[dajop]

So before if you flew India doh Aus did you not need to get a test - is that the loophole they are closing?

No, everyone, except travellers from NZ, must take a test no more than 72 hours before departure.

But what has changed for "high risk" destinations (India) is it is 72 hours measured before departure on last flight, for other destinations it is before the first flight. Probably best illustrated by example:

Say (for arguments sake) you were flying on EK from DEL to SYD. Expert Flyer shows the following schedule on 6 May (for this example let's not get into permissions to transit DXB or availability):
depart DEL @ 16:15 Thu, arr DXB @ 18:10 Thu
depart DXB @ 02:15 Fri, arr SYD @ 22:05 Fri

Before, test would be required within the 72 hours before 16:15 Thu, so no earlier than 16:15 Mon India time.
Now, test required within 72 hours before 02:15 Fri DXB time (03:35 India time), which means the test must be done no earlier than 03:35 Tue India time.
If the layover in DXB was 12 hours longer, for example, then the test couldn't be done earlier than 15:35 Tue, India time.

 

[RAM]

Amusing that you think that vax rollout is linked to how much of a joke a country is. Yes it's poor we have a slow rollout however it is quite simple they don't have the stock and yes it was an oversight not ordering more but calling it a joke is a bit far-fetched.

No, actually the Federal Govt has had more than enough stock - just inept management of it. This was why the Federal Govt was required to explicitly state they had experienced no supply issues with Pfizer (or face contract termination for misrepresenting contractual performance).

In the first week when they were to do 60,000 injections, they managed around 30,000 (which is the best % result so far btw) - they had well over 60,000 doses of the Pfizer vaccine available. By the second week (still keeping back half for the 2nd dose) there were over 160,000 doses of Pfizer approved for doses in people's arm.

I traced the numbers & provided the details to numerous journalists/media outlets. Most chose not to run the story. The Federal Dept of Health tried to squelch it & initially refused to confirm the numbers, before caving to avoid the even more adverse article. They manipulated the figures somewhat & understated the 'available' for injection figures by close to 1 million doses btw. The 'manipulated' figures still look attrocious. Here is one group who did:

4 million vaccines but only 1.6 million given out, amid jab plan changes

More than four million COVID vaccines have been received by the government, but Australia's sluggish rollout means less than 40 per cent of have gone out.

thenewdaily.com.au

Spoiler: Activate for More

Australia had received more than 4.1 million doses of vaccine as of April 14.

<< Now this is where the DoH twisted the numbers, for example, Australia has actually received 9 shipments of Pfizer totalling nearly 1.3m doses NOT the 1.1 million (virtually 1.15m actually). Of which 1.15 million were available for injection as of April 8/9, and as of April 15th was 1.3 million (remember that DoH provided this info on April 19th). Yet DoH say 1.1m doses received. >>

That includes 1.1 million doses of Pfizer and 714,000 doses of AstraZeneca imported from overseas, plus 2.3 million doses of AstraZeneca manufactured at Melbourne’s CSL plant, the department told TND on Monday.

But the latest figures on actual jabs in arms show just 1.586 million vaccinations had been given as of Sunday, April 18.

<< So to compare like with like the DoH should have provided the 1.3 million Pfizer doses & and next week's released AZ doses which would have added around another 800,000 to bring the total up by close to 1 million doses. The extra 4 days (from April 14 to 18) is roughly 220,000 injections done if avged 55,000 a day out of another 1 million doses available or 22% of new stock. >>
______________________________________________________________

Phase 1A Priority recipients:
Q & Border workers = 70,000
Frontline healthcare worker sub-groups for prioritisation = 100,000
Aged & Disability Care residents = 190,000
Aged & Disability Care workers = 318,000
Total = 678,000

So Everyone in Phase 1A could have and should have received their 1st Pfizer dose & over 90% should have received their second.

Yet 1% of disability care workers had received their 1st shot & many were given AZ, the bulk of aged care workers (85%) are still to receive their 1st shot, as are 15 to 20% or more of frontline health care yet to get their 1st dose and of those who have got their 1st in the last few weeks many were given AZ (in NSW at least) & are now waiting until the last week of June or July for their second AZ injection.

The majority (93% actually) of disability care residents have not received their 1st dose either - so who have been getting the rest of the Pfizer injections?

Vaccinating the highest-risk groups first was the plan. But people with disability are being left behind

During the height of the pandemic, people with disability felt they had been forgotten and were not a priority. In the vaccine rollout, the government is repeating its past mistakes.

theconversation.com

It was revealed on Sunday night that 731,000 doses of AZ had been injected out of a total of 1,934,000 total injections, which leaves 1,203,000 Pfizer doses injected.

The DoH refused to provide the break-up of AZ shots vs Pfizer but a question about the number of clotting cases to number of AZ injections actually given was how the 731,000 AZ injections figure was mentioned at a media conference - letting the rabbit out of the hat!

As there remains over 450,000 priority 1A recipients' injections to be given (some their 2nd injection & others their 1st & 2nd injection) - meaning well over 300,000 doses were given to non-Priority 1A people.

Actually the figure is much greater as AZ has been given to many Phase 1A over the last 3 weeks.

So who exactly has been getting the Pfizer shots? Don't hold your breath waiting for it to be revealed though.

 

[sjk]

A good rule of thumb for dealing with pretty much anything is that if someone really knows what they’re talking about, they can probably get their point across in a few paragraphs without straying into all sorts of extraneous nonsense.

 

[RAM]

A good rule of thumb for dealing with pretty much anything is that if someone really knows what they’re talking about, they can probably get their point across in a few paragraphs without straying into all sorts of extraneous nonsense.

Or pre-empt the posts saying 'prove it', 'what are your sources', 'show the links' etc etc.

As 1 + 1 = 2. The Federal Govt vaccine roll out has been extremely poor which is why they finally put a senior military person in charge (in contrast with how NZ, the UK & US did that in the initial pre-planning stage).

How would you summarise the details into a few paragraphs?

 

[digpomi]

No, actually the Federal Govt has had more than enough stock - just inept management of it. This was why the Federal Govt was required to explicitly state they had experienced no supply issues with Pfizer (or face contract termination for misrepresenting contractual performance).

In the first week when they were to do 60,000 injections, they managed around 30,000 (which is the best % result so far btw) - they had well over 60,000 doses of the Pfizer vaccine available. By the second week (still keeping back half for the 2nd dose) there were over 160,000 doses of Pfizer approved for doses in people's arm.

I traced the numbers & provided the details to numerous journalists/media outlets. Most chose not to run the story. The Federal Dept of Health tried to squelch it & initially refused to confirm the numbers, before caving to avoid the even more adverse article. They manipulated the figures somewhat & understated the 'available' for injection figures by close to 1 million doses btw. The 'manipulated' figures still look attrocious. Here is one group who did:

4 million vaccines but only 1.6 million given out, amid jab plan changes

More than four million COVID vaccines have been received by the government, but Australia's sluggish rollout means less than 40 per cent of have gone out.

thenewdaily.com.au

Australia had received more than 4.1 million doses of vaccine as of April 14.

<< Now this is where the DoH twisted the numbers, for example, Australia has actually received 9 shipments of Pfizer totalling nearly 1.3m doses NOT the 1.1 million (virtually 1.15m actually). Of which 1.15 million were available for injection as of April 8/9, and as of April 15th was 1.3 million (remember that DoH provided this info on April 19th). Yet DoH say 1.1m doses received. >>

That includes 1.1 million doses of Pfizer and 714,000 doses of AstraZeneca imported from overseas, plus 2.3 million doses of AstraZeneca manufactured at Melbourne’s CSL plant, the department told TND on Monday.

But the latest figures on actual jabs in arms show just 1.586 million vaccinations had been given as of Sunday, April 18.

<< So to compare like with like the DoH should have provided the 1.3 million Pfizer doses & and next week's released AZ doses which would have added around another 800,000 to bring the total up by close to 1 million doses. The extra 4 days (from April 14 to 18) is roughly 220,000 injections done if avged 55,000 a day out of another 1 million doses available or 22% of new stock. >>
______________________________________________________________

Phase 1A Priority recipients:
Q & Border workers = 70,000
Frontline healthcare worker sub-groups for prioritisation = 100,000
Aged & Disability Care residents = 190,000
Aged & Disability Care workers = 318,000
Total = 678,000

So Everyone in Phase 1A could have and should have received their 1st Pfizer dose & over 90% should have received their second.

Yet 1% of disability care workers had received their 1st shot & many were given AZ, the bulk of aged care workers (85%) are still to receive their 1st shot, as are 15 to 20% or more of frontline health care yet to get their 1st dose and of those who have got their 1st in the last few weeks many were given AZ (in NSW at least) & are now waiting until the last week of June or July for their second AZ injection.

The majority (93% actually) of disability care residents have not received their 1st dose either - so who have been getting the rest of the Pfizer injections?

Vaccinating the highest-risk groups first was the plan. But people with disability are being left behind

During the height of the pandemic, people with disability felt they had been forgotten and were not a priority. In the vaccine rollout, the government is repeating its past mistakes.

theconversation.com

It was revealed on Sunday night that 731,000 doses of AZ had been injected out of a total of 1,934,000 total injections, which leaves 1,203,000 Pfizer doses injected.

The DoH refused to provide the break-up of AZ shots vs Pfizer but a question about the number of clotting cases to number of AZ injections actually given was how the 731,000 AZ injections figure was mentioned at a media conference - letting the rabbit out of the hat!

As there remains over 450,000 priority 1A recipients' injections to be given (some their 2nd injection & others their 1st & 2nd injection) - meaning well over 300,000 doses were given to non-Priority 1A people.

Actually the figure is much greater as AZ has been given to many Phase 1A over the last 3 weeks.

So who exactly has been getting the Pfizer shots? Don't hold your breath waiting for it to be revealed though.

I think the true figure is other way around, 1.2 million AZ and 700000 Pfizer. GP Clinics only have AZ and account for nearly a million alone

 

[Flying mermaid]

No, everyone, except travellers from NZ, must take a test no more than 72 hours before departure.

But what has changed for "high risk" destinations (India) is it is 72 hours measured before departure on last flight, for other destinations it is before the first flight. Probably best illustrated by example:

Say (for arguments sake) you were flying on EK from DEL to SYD. Expert Flyer shows the following schedule on 6 May (for this example let's not get into permissions to transit DXB or availability):
depart DEL @ 16:15 Thu, arr DXB @ 18:10 Thu
depart DXB @ 02:15 Fri, arr SYD @ 22:05 Fri

Before, test would be required within the 72 hours before 16:15 Thu, so no earlier than 16:15 Mon India time.
Now, test required within 72 hours before 02:15 Fri DXB time (03:35 India time), which means the test must be done no earlier than 03:35 Tue India time.
If the layover in DXB was 12 hours longer, for example, then the test couldn't be done earlier than 15:35 Tue, India time.

I must admit I fail to see how that makes much difference, unless there is something happening with indirect routes that makes them want the test done later. Why not later with direct flights as well.

 

[Anna]

I wonder what (if any) planning is being done by govts and CHOs for the situation we will have in a few months time when everyone who wants a vaccine will have had their chance to get it but there are still covid cases and there are still people getting sick. Unfortunately the vaccine does not generate an immune response in everyone and although it reduces spread it does not stop spread. Some people are still going to get sick even if they have been vaccinated. In the U.K. a few have died even after being vaccinated. The possibility that premiers will still panic over 1-2 cases and we will still have to have lockdowns, travel restrictions, hotel quarantine and self isolation even after large scale vaccinations makes me shudder.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I wonder what (if any) planning is being done by govts and CHOs for the situation we will have in a few months time when everyone who wants a vaccine will have had their chance to get it but there are still covid cases and there are still people getting sick. Unfortunately the vaccine does not generate an immune response in everyone and although it reduces spread it does not stop spread. Some people are still going to get sick even if they have been vaccinated. In the U.K. a few have died even after being vaccinated. The possibility that premiers will still panic over 1-2 cases and we will still have to have lockdowns, travel restrictions, hotel quarantine and self isolation even after large scale vaccinations makes me shudder.

I agree it going to take a big change in mindset by premiers and the population. People get sick and die every year from the flu and we cope with that. Once we have a large number vaccinated (and that looks like it is going to be an issue), then have to start accepting that and open up first domestically with no more lockdowns and then internationally.