Australian Frequent Flyers - I will appreciate your feedback

[E Shirley]

Hello Australian Frequent Flyers - I will appreciate your feedback on this:

Back Story
In August 2022 Mr ES could see J Reward seats from BNE to LDH (SYD to LDH in Y of course), but no return flights. Mr ES loves fishing the waters around LDH.

I had an Amex $450 Qantas Travel Voucher to use, so we decided to split the cost of the trip between us.

Mr ES booked the Reward Seats and I paid for the return seats ($1,045.76 less $450 voucher).

It would be just a quick trip - Tuesday 16 May BNE-LDH, Friday 19 May to LDH-SYD (Tina the musical booked for Friday night), returning SYD-BNE on 20 May.

The Travel Diary
Tuesday 16 May 2023 (original booking BNE-SYD-LDH)
Our first text message from Qantas was on Tuesday at 8.38am - 'we have had to change your flight time for QF513'.

Our flight was delayed due to late arrival of the aircraft. We landed in SYD at 11.45am, the flight to LDH was scheduled for 11.45am. The cabin manager told us we were still scheduled to connect, and the QF app told us that our flight SYD-LDH had been delayed, so we hurried off the aircraft to gate 11a - but it was already boarding another flight. When we were at the service desk Mr ES heard one of the service desk assistants who was speaking on the telephone say "the passengers from the connecting flight are not here" - was that us?

We were given accommodation at the Ibis and $50 hotel credit each and rebooked on Wednesday's flight.

The gentleman at the Ibis reception was excellent, he must hear a lot of this and he manages it very well.

We rang our LDH accommodation and told them we would be a day late.

Wednesday 17 May 2023
Our first text message from Qantas was at 6.23am - 'we're sorry we had to cancel your flight'...and soon after that - we have rebooked you on to flight QF2262 on Thursday 18 May'.

We're small business owners so a short visit if there is the chance of a day fishing is okay, but arriving at 2.35pm on Thursday and leaving at 10.05am on Friday? Surely we would have the option to cancel without a fee - we thought that sounded reasonable.

We checked accommodation in Sydney for the days until our return flight to BNE and one of our favorites was available at a good rate, and hoping that the service desk at the airport could help us (after all it was a delayed flight that caused this) we headed to the airport.

The staff at the service desk said that the re-scheduled flight was "ridiculous" and gave us the phone number for the priority line.

We then called the priority line straight away from the airport, explained the situation, waited on hold, and then were told that Qantas had accepted the cancellation request and "everything was done at the Qantas end".

We moved hotels and had a nice afternoon walk, called in a one of Mr ES's favorite fishing stores and bought a new fishing rod. The guys in the shop are great to chat with, and they gave us the business card from a local Sydney Harbour fishing charter. We think we can still have a couple of nice days.

Thursday 18 May 2023
First text message from Qantas is at 6.52am -'we're sorry we had to cancel your flight', and soon after a second message 'we have rebooked you on QF2260 on Friday 19 May at 7.05am arriving (LDH) at 9.35am'.

What? Yesterday the cancellation was "all done at Qantas end".

Mr ES called - he was told - you must go online and cancel the outbound flight and you will have to talk to Amex about the return flight refund.

So, we took screen shots of the outbound booking with all the reschedule times and cancelled it.

Then I called Amex Travel and explained and they said that they would "ask Qantas".

Later that morning they rang back - Qantas had accepted the cancellation of the return flight was because of the delayed/rescheduled outbound flight and we would receive a credit that had to be used by 10/08/2023 (I questioned that I had heard the date correctly), there could be no name changes, the value of the the new booking had to be of equal or greater value and there would be a rebooking fee of $99 per person.

What? We didn't choose to cancel (unless you think 20 hours at the destination is okay) and we're out of pocket with a short expiry date.

I asked Amex if they could ask Qantas for a Qantas travel credit.

Later in the day - another call from Amex - the request has been declined because the flight hasn't been cancelled. We needed some time to think about this, so we put it aside for the next morning.

Friday 19 May 2023
First text message from Qantas at 6.27am - 'sorry we had to cancel your flight QF2261 from Lord Howe Island. We are looking for alternative flight options'. Nothing more. We think that maybe the system knows that it has been cancelled.

We move hotels (more to the back story, this is the hotel that we booked in August 2022 when we had an evening in Sydney between flights). The lady at hotel reception was excellent, our early check-in was accommodated (we paid a room upgrade fee but it was well worth it). The early check-in meant that we could both spend the day on Sydney Harbour and get back, change and make our pre-theatre dinner reservation. Mr ES was fishing and I added to the conversation as required. It works for me, I get to see the enormous smile on Mr ES's face when he lands a good fish. But fishing just isn't my thing.

Much later in the day when checking emails (I didn't give this a priority because all airline contact had been by text message) there's an email from Amex travel: 'we wanted to let you know about an airline-initiated schedule change...new timing Sunday 21 May...QF2263 departs 2.15pm' from LDH.

What? Qantas didn't send a text message about this!

But it's Friday, when we had originally booked to be in Sydney, we have friends to meet and a show to go to, and we're not going to destroy our break any further than it has been already. We'll try the Amex 'chat line' tomorrow and ask at the airport.

Saturday 20 May 2023
First text message from Qantas at 6.57am 'we had to change your flight time for QF 520 from Sydney'. Even our flight home SYD-BNE was cancelled. We went to the airport as soon as we could and accepted downgraded economy seats to fly back as close to our originally booked time as possible.

I still had the matter of the 'airline-initiated' flight change, Amex chat line wouldn't work and phone line doesn't operate on the weekend. When we arrived at the
QF lounge I asked the very kind lounge check-in ladies and they replied that they "can't help unless you're traveling today", but they could see that this was now causing me some distress and they called the priority number on their phone - so I speak to Kay and she says 'Qantas can't help because the flight was not cancelled - it was changed to 21 May' and I need to speak to Amex.

I'm embarrassed to say that at that time I had a complete meltdown, with tears and an exclamation that I am a human being that booked a flight on 19 May that has been changed to 21 May when I can't possibly fly! And then told the lounge ladies that I can't talk anymore!

The lounge check-in lady came over to my seat in the lounge and I explained more to her. She gave me a card with the Qantas feedback website details, but stood up and said loud for others around to hear "you booked through a travel agent, it's their responsibility to look after you".

She walks away with me thinking, the travel agent says that they can't 'look after' me because Qantas hasn't cancelled the flights. Who is telling me the truth?



If you have read this rant from the beginning, and you choose not to respond, please know that I'm pleased that you read this.

But if you would like to share any feedback, comments, suggestions, advice, criticism, it will help me to give the best and hopefully the most balanced/unbiased feedback possible to both Qantas and Amex, and I will appreciate some help with that.

 

[Anna]

If this happened to me I would write (snail mail, on paper) to QF head office attention the Legal Department. Paragraph 1 - what I want. Paragraph 2+ - why I want it (cut and paste from above). Last paragraph - if I don't get your response within x days I will take this dispute to QCAT/Magistrates Court (or whatever the correct place in Qld is for a small claim). Make sure to include your booking reference numbers, QFF numbers, contact details.

 

[Daver6]

Two thoughts spring to mind here.

1) you booked and paid with an Amex card. I wonder if you could just claim this on travel insurance?
2) as above, just put in a request for a charge back.

 

[Princess Fiona]

You had two separate one way bookings.

Award seats booked through QF which you cancelled and presumably got a refund for and separate revenue booking from Amex.

As Amex is the TA it’s their responsibility to cancel it at your request and refund you providing the booking conditions allow it.
I think Amex is an absolutely woeful TA. Fine if things go ok but atrocious if they don’t and you need them to fix things.

The other option you have here is TI. Have you looked into getting anything back from them ?

 

[E Shirley]

If this happened to me I would write (snail mail, on paper) to QF head office attention the Legal Department. Paragraph 1 - what I want. Paragraph 2+ - why I want it (cut and paste from above). Last paragraph - if I don't get your response within x days I will take this dispute to QCAT/Magistrates Court (or whatever the correct place in Qld is for a small claim). Make sure to include your booking reference numbers, QFF numbers, contact details.

Hello Anna, Thank you for your reply, I was hoping for a Qantas Flight Credit to the full value of the flights that I booked with an expire date until maybe end April 2024. I would have been very happy with that. It would cover the cost of the Sydney accommodation that we had to book while we waited for our return flight to Brisbane. And we wouldn't have the hassle of putting in a TI claim.

 

[E Shirley]

Two thoughts spring to mind here.

1) you booked and paid with an Amex card. I wonder if you could just claim this on travel insurance?
2) as above, just put in a request for a charge back.

Hello Daver6, yes booked and paid with an Amex, but no suggestion or support from Amex Travel to start that process, even though they have all of the information at hand. Is that too much to ask? I also have an annual multi-trip travel insurance policy, but always try to sort out flight cancellations with the airline first. I think of the insurance policy as cover for serious situations, like hospital and long delays. Otherwise we're all making insurance more expensive, maybe I overthink these things!

 

[E Shirley]

You had two separate one way bookings.

Award seats booked through QF which you cancelled and presumably got a refund for and separate revenue booking from Amex.

As Amex is the TA it’s their responsibility to cancel it at your request and refund you providing the booking conditions allow it.
I think Amex is an absolutely woeful TA. Fine if things go ok but atrocious if they don’t and you need them to fix things.

The other option you have here is TI. Have you looked into getting anything back from them ?

Hello Princess Fiona, yes, I agree the TA experience hasn't been great. I will avoid the Qantas Flight credit in future. Time to re-think my credit card selection.

Post automatically merged: May 21, 2023

Hello Princess Fiona, yes, I agree the TA experience hasn't been great. I will avoid the Qantas Flight credit in future. Time to re-think my credit card selection.

Sorry, I should explain that a bit better, avoid the Amex Qantas Credit Card Travel Voucher!

 

[odysseus]

There are a few details I'm unsure about, but the way I read it it seems like the outward FF booking is cancelled and being refunded now? While the experience hasn't been great, if that's the case, I'd set aside any issues with QF (unless you really want to pursue things with them) and just focus on the AmerEx side and deal only with the TA. That will simplify the resolution and reduce time and stress. Plus you only then need to explain the outward flight to the TA in how it caused the need for cancellation, not detail the changes and issues you had there.

If that's the case, then it's just a matter of following up with the TA and ensure you are made whole when they reopen tomorrow. At that stage you can clarify dates and conditions and negotiate what you're after e.g. rebooking dates.

 

[JohnK]

So sorry to hear of your experiences. Sounds awful.

If any flight is cancelled they should offer to fully refund without conditions + compensation for inconvenience.

I had to laugh recently where we had a 17+ hour delay on Scoot from Tuesday night to Wednesday afternoon. They offered to refund fully but with a Scoot voucher. No thanks.

We really need adequate protection for passengers in this country. I don't care that airlines may suffer in the process. At the moment too many passengers are suffering and airlines doing nothing about it.

 

[Pushka]

Hello Australian Frequent Flyers - I will appreciate your feedback on this:

Back Story
In August 2022 Mr ES could see J Reward seats from BNE to LDH (SYD to LDH in Y of course), but no return flights. Mr ES loves fishing the waters around LDH.

I had an Amex $450 Qantas Travel Voucher to use, so we decided to split the cost of the trip between us.

Mr ES booked the Reward Seats and I paid for the return seats ($1,045.76 less $450 voucher).

It would be just a quick trip - Tuesday 16 May BNE-LDH, Friday 19 May to LDH-SYD (Tina the musical booked for Friday night), returning SYD-BNE on 20 May.

The Travel Diary
Tuesday 16 May 2023 (original booking BNE-SYD-LDH)
Our first text message from Qantas was on Tuesday at 8.38am - 'we have had to change your flight time for QF513'.

Our flight was delayed due to late arrival of the aircraft. We landed in SYD at 11.45am, the flight to LDH was scheduled for 11.45am. The cabin manager told us we were still scheduled to connect, and the QF app told us that our flight SYD-LDH had been delayed, so we hurried off the aircraft to gate 11a - but it was already boarding another flight. When we were at the service desk Mr ES heard one of the service desk assistants who was speaking on the telephone say "the passengers from the connecting flight are not here" - was that us?

We were given accommodation at the Ibis and $50 hotel credit each and rebooked on Wednesday's flight.

The gentleman at the Ibis reception was excellent, he must hear a lot of this and he manages it very well.

We rang our LDH accommodation and told them we would be a day late.

Wednesday 17 May 2023
Our first text message from Qantas was at 6.23am - 'we're sorry we had to cancel your flight'...and soon after that - we have rebooked you on to flight QF2262 on Thursday 18 May'.

We're small business owners so a short visit if there is the chance of a day fishing is okay, but arriving at 2.35pm on Thursday and leaving at 10.05am on Friday? Surely we would have the option to cancel without a fee - we thought that sounded reasonable.

We checked accommodation in Sydney for the days until our return flight to BNE and one of our favorites was available at a good rate, and hoping that the service desk at the airport could help us (after all it was a delayed flight that caused this) we headed to the airport.

The staff at the service desk said that the re-scheduled flight was "ridiculous" and gave us the phone number for the priority line.

We then called the priority line straight away from the airport, explained the situation, waited on hold, and then were told that Qantas had accepted the cancellation request and "everything was done at the Qantas end".

We moved hotels and had a nice afternoon walk, called in a one of Mr ES's favorite fishing stores and bought a new fishing rod. The guys in the shop are great to chat with, and they gave us the business card from a local Sydney Harbour fishing charter. We think we can still have a couple of nice days.

Thursday 18 May 2023
First text message from Qantas is at 6.52am -'we're sorry we had to cancel your flight', and soon after a second message 'we have rebooked you on QF2260 on Friday 19 May at 7.05am arriving (LDH) at 9.35am'.

What? Yesterday the cancellation was "all done at Qantas end".

Mr ES called - he was told - you must go online and cancel the outbound flight and you will have to talk to Amex about the return flight refund.

So, we took screen shots of the outbound booking with all the reschedule times and cancelled it.

Then I called Amex Travel and explained and they said that they would "ask Qantas".

Later that morning they rang back - Qantas had accepted the cancellation of the return flight was because of the delayed/rescheduled outbound flight and we would receive a credit that had to be used by 10/08/2023 (I questioned that I had heard the date correctly), there could be no name changes, the value of the the new booking had to be of equal or greater value and there would be a rebooking fee of $99 per person.

What? We didn't choose to cancel (unless you think 20 hours at the destination is okay) and we're out of pocket with a short expiry date.

I asked Amex if they could ask Qantas for a Qantas travel credit.

Later in the day - another call from Amex - the request has been declined because the flight hasn't been cancelled. We needed some time to think about this, so we put it aside for the next morning.

Friday 19 May 2023
First text message from Qantas at 6.27am - 'sorry we had to cancel your flight QF2261 from Lord Howe Island. We are looking for alternative flight options'. Nothing more. We think that maybe the system knows that it has been cancelled.

We move hotels (more to the back story, this is the hotel that we booked in August 2022 when we had an evening in Sydney between flights). The lady at hotel reception was excellent, our early check-in was accommodated (we paid a room upgrade fee but it was well worth it). The early check-in meant that we could both spend the day on Sydney Harbour and get back, change and make our pre-theatre dinner reservation. Mr ES was fishing and I added to the conversation as required. It works for me, I get to see the enormous smile on Mr ES's face when he lands a good fish. But fishing just isn't my thing.

Much later in the day when checking emails (I didn't give this a priority because all airline contact had been by text message) there's an email from Amex travel: 'we wanted to let you know about an airline-initiated schedule change...new timing Sunday 21 May...QF2263 departs 2.15pm' from LDH.

What? Qantas didn't send a text message about this!

But it's Friday, when we had originally booked to be in Sydney, we have friends to meet and a show to go to, and we're not going to destroy our break any further than it has been already. We'll try the Amex 'chat line' tomorrow and ask at the airport.

Saturday 20 May 2023
First text message from Qantas at 6.57am 'we had to change your flight time for QF 520 from Sydney'. Even our flight home SYD-BNE was cancelled. We went to the airport as soon as we could and accepted downgraded economy seats to fly back as close to our originally booked time as possible.

I still had the matter of the 'airline-initiated' flight change, Amex chat line wouldn't work and phone line doesn't operate on the weekend. When we arrived at the
QF lounge I asked the very kind lounge check-in ladies and they replied that they "can't help unless you're traveling today", but they could see that this was now causing me some distress and they called the priority number on their phone - so I speak to Kay and she says 'Qantas can't help because the flight was not cancelled - it was changed to 21 May' and I need to speak to Amex.

I'm embarrassed to say that at that time I had a complete meltdown, with tears and an exclamation that I am a human being that booked a flight on 19 May that has been changed to 21 May when I can't possibly fly! And then told the lounge ladies that I can't talk anymore!

The lounge check-in lady came over to my seat in the lounge and I explained more to her. She gave me a card with the Qantas feedback website details, but stood up and said loud for others around to hear "you booked through a travel agent, it's their responsibility to look after you".

She walks away with me thinking, the travel agent says that they can't 'look after' me because Qantas hasn't cancelled the flights. Who is telling me the truth?



If you have read this rant from the beginning, and you choose not to respond, please know that I'm pleased that you read this.

But if you would like to share any feedback, comments, suggestions, advice, criticism, it will help me to give the best and hopefully the most balanced/unbiased feedback possible to both Qantas and Amex, and I will appreciate some help with that.

Take Anna's advice

What an awful story. I know that Amex has this credit to spend but sometimes think it's far more problematic when I do so. Always seems to be the flights that get messed up. Reckon that Amex were advised of all these issues but they don't do anything to tell you, the customer.

 

[E Shirley]

Thanks Odysseus, JohnK and Pushka. I will resume:

Sunday 21 May 2023 - Back at Second Job - I work two jobs to feed my travel bug
I wake up early and check our booking status. QF have resumed flights to and from LDH so now I'm worried that we have seats on a flight leaving LDH. With flights disrupted for three days, I'm certain that there are passengers needing these seats. So, I call QF to highlight this. Fortunately, I get a call centre operator who seems to understand. We talk while she is trying to cancel our booking and then she says, "there's something in the booking that's stopping me from doing this" she will have to "send it to IT". I've done the best that I can, but it doesn't help me feel any better.

Later in the day Bonnie from LDH Airport calls "are you on the island?" she asks, we explain that we couldn't get there and please give our seats to someone that needs them (some airline staff excel in how they handle a situation).

I wonder if there is an AFF thread about the incredible LDH flight operation/island capacity/special pilot training/special aircraft. Maybe when I've finished this.

Monday 22 May 2023 - Back to Main Job
As suggested by Odysseus, when Amex Travel office opens, I call and explain again - I'm told that they will "ask Qantas". About 2 hours later they call back with the original Amex Credit with 10/08/23 expiry date, re-booking fee. I tell her that this isn't what QF tell me, and she says that I'm "talking to a different department". They're talking to "Agency desk" and "Qantas won't take ownership of the booking".

So I call QF again and I'm told "you need to tell the people at Amex Travel that you're not on LDH".

So I call Amex, they say "there's nothing on the booking".

So I call QF and this time the operator says "we have tools that we can use when people keep calling back" and that he has created the credit now.

But later I get a message that I haven't checked-in for my flight, so I call QF at LDH and explain that I'm trying to sort this out and please put someone in our seats if they need them.

Friday 26 May
I have time this morning to phone QF again to check on the status of our booking. This time the operator is going to "escalate the request" to QF "agency connect" - the people that I'm unable to contact.

Friday 2 June
I call to follow up and this time I'm asked if we have filled out the Customer Care form. So I'm back at the beginning again, the last time we were asked this we explained that it didn't seem to work, it didn't list our flight. This time I keep the operator on the line and explain the points that make us think that it isn't working properly for our request.

The form is completed and about an hour later I receive a response, but I deeply and sincerely did not need the paragraphs about "Scheduling is affected by a huge variety of operational factors" - in my immediately family there was an Aircraft Mechanic and an Avionics Technician. Crickey - this situation has nothing to do with "inconvenience caused by the change to your flight" it has to do with being told by QF call centre that a QF flight credit expiry 22/5/24 has been agreed and Amex Travel saying that it hasn't. I feel very disturbed that I am seen as an unreasonable person.

Saturday 3 June
I'm a volunteer in the Justice of the Peace in the community programme, so I spend the morning helping people with their documents and declarations. Then when I get home, I read JohnK's 'so sorry...sounds awful' - thank you so much for that - it is nice to be understood. And decide to continue this discussion.

There are so many people in airline operations that do an amazing job. People in the aircraft and on the tarmac who often work through multiple problems at the same time. But I can't help but feel that one department is dropping the ball or working to a different goal to the people in the aircraft and on the tarmac.

I also think that under Australian consumer protection I can ask for a QF flight credit and I'm not sure where that request is being treated as unreasonable, even with two separate bookings and booking through Amex Travel. Neither of those things change what actually happened. There were involuntary flight changes. All flights were with the same airline. And it was not necessary for a flight to depart with empty seats, so QF wouldn't be out of pocket.

Again, thanks for reading, and thanks AFF for place to put my rant.

 

[Seat0B]

Do you know a journalist that might be interested in this story? It often seems that people's problems get sorted once the media get onto it. Maybe someone on here is a journalist or knows one?

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all - you seem very clear and focused in the way you are describing the situation and you are not asking for the world by way of recompense. I think you will just have to stick at it and keep trying until the lottery of life gifts you an agent who knows how to fix this mess ypu have endured.

 

[E Shirley]

Do you know a journalist that might be interested in this story? It often seems that people's problems get sorted once the media get onto it. Maybe someone on here is a journalist or knows one?

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all - you seem very clear and focused in the way you are describing the situation and you are not asking for the world by way of recompense. I think you will just have to stick at it and keep trying until the lottery of life gifts you an agent who knows how to fix this mess ypu have endured.

Thank you Seat0B. I'm not sure that this is the Blockbuster story that a journalist would be hoping to find! But I do feel that if I accept the short expiry date and re-booking fees that Amex Travel insists is my only option, then I will be allowing that to continue to happen to other people.

 

[E Shirley]

An update:

Friday 9 June 2023
I hadn't received a response from Qantas to the reply that I sent to the email that I received that was telling me, again, to contact Amex. So I call again and explain that I don't feel that a request for a flight credit with longer date and without re-booking fees is unreasonable because I didn't choose to cancel the flights, it occurred because of reasons outside of my control.

I speak to Danny and he says that he will send the request to Customer Care and about an hour later an email arrives that says 'Whilst we are currently receiving a high volume of queries, we are committed to responding to you as soon as possible and thank you for your patience.'

Then this morning I receive:

'I can confirm that flight QF2265, which was scheduled to depart from Lord Howe Is to Sydney on 22/05/2023 13:35:00 was delayed due to Operational reasons.

The flight did not arrive in to Sydney until 22/05/2023 15:53:00. This was a total delay period of 0?hours, 33 minutes....this information is provided to assist you.'

There is no mention that the flight that I booked was 19/05/2023!

Help!

 

[Seat0B]

An update:

Friday 9 June 2023
I hadn't received a response from Qantas to the reply that I sent to the email that I received that was telling me, again, to contact Amex. So I call again and explain that I don't feel that a request for a flight credit with longer date and without re-booking fees is unreasonable because I didn't choose to cancel the flights, it occurred because of reasons outside of my control.

I speak to Danny and he says that he will send the request to Customer Care and about an hour later an email arrives that says 'Whilst we are currently receiving a high volume of queries, we are committed to responding to you as soon as possible and thank you for your patience.'

Then this morning I receive:

'I can confirm that flight QF2265, which was scheduled to depart from Lord Howe Is to Sydney on 22/05/2023 13:35:00 was delayed due to Operational reasons.

The flight did not arrive in to Sydney until 22/05/2023 15:53:00. This was a total delay period of 0?hours, 33 minutes....this information is provided to assist you.'

There is no mention that the flight that I booked was 19/05/2023!

Help!

I’m so sorry you are going through this @E Shirley. All I can suggest at this point is call again and try all over again to ge someone who can actually help you. I suspect a mix of the run Roy d to get you to drop it, and incompetence.

FWIW I am still waiting to have my SC adjusted for an involuntary downgrade imposed in February, so I’d say it’s pretty standard these days to get atrocious customer service.

 

[E Shirley]

Thanks to everyone who gave their support. Eventually Amex understood that the flight was cancelled by Qantas and they have just refunded the full cash amount that was paid and $450 Amex Qantas Credit Card Travel Voucher with expire date next year. I'm restored to where I was when I made the booking. It took a few weeks and several calls.