Australian Dual Citizens Entering UK after February

[Pushka]

RNZ.co.nz 19 Feb
British dual nationals with NZ passports no longer need new UK passport
Click bait headline a little over enthusiastic

Those certificates of entitlement are 5x the cost of passports. What is their rationale for that?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Those certificates of entitlement are 5x the cost of passports. What is their rationale for that?

They want you to get a passport. Passports are a right (of sorts) and issued on a not-for-profit basis.

Other visa and immigration services are ‘for profit’. The certificate of entitlement isn't at the high end compared to some of the other services.

 

[jase05]

Friends are getting worried now as they leave in 13 days.
The father has Aussie passport and ETA
The mother is Irish and has Irish passport
Daughter born in Australia has Australia passport and ETA but his understanding is that his daughter is automatically an Irish citizen.
Are they going to have issues?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Friends are getting worried now as they leave in 13 days.
The father has Aussie passport and ETA
The mother is Irish and has Irish passport
Daughter born in Australia has Australia passport and ETA but his understanding is that his daughter is automatically an Irish citizen.
Are they going to have issues?

Mother born in Ireland? Likely the child is Irish, automatically.

Will it be a problem? Who knows.

The child could have been born to a different mother (previous relationship).

 

[jase05]

Mother born in Ireland?

Yes

 

[Pushka]

Mother born in Ireland? Likely the child is Irish, automatically.

Will it be a problem? Who knows.

The child could have been born to a different mother (previous relationship).

But it's inconsistent. Or full of holes? As in the case of my father, both of his parents born in UK. He is not registered in official sources as a British citizen.

 

[lovestotravel]

Friends are getting worried now as they leave in 13 days.
The father has Aussie passport and ETA
The mother is Irish and has Irish passport
Daughter born in Australia has Australia passport and ETA but his understanding is that his daughter is automatically an Irish citizen.
Are they going to have issues?

Yes, IF they pickup on it prior to boarding, that is the question no-one officially answers.

It seems once you get to the border they would be OK.

Keep us updated!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But it's inconsistent. Or full of holes? As in the case of my father, both of his parents born in UK. He is not registered in official sources as a British citizen.

Ireland may be different to the UK.

Where was you father born? If he was born in Australia and never registered or applied for citizenship, how would anyone know? The UK won’t even know he exists.

I suspect it’s similar for Ireland, but I believe they're a lot more liberal in giving out citizenship. They may not have as many loopholes or get outs.

 

[Pushka]

Ireland may be different to the UK.

Where was you father born? If he was born in Australia and never registered or applied for citizenship, how would anyone know? The UK won’t even know he exists.

I suspect it’s similar for Ireland, but I believe they're a lot more liberal in giving out citizenship. They may not have as many loopholes or get outs.

So therefore why would any child born in Australia to UK parents need to have a British passport if they've never registered/applied for one?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So therefore why would any child born in Australia to UK parents need to have a British passport if they've never registered/applied for one?

That’s the big question!

Legally, the law states if you are born to UK parents who are able to pass that citizenship on, your kids are automatically british.

While it may be true that the UK government has no way of knowing this, and has no way to enforce it, they cannot give out advice that is contrary to law.

The official line will always be ‘you need a UK passport if you are automatically British’.

It’s possible a border agent in the UK might see mum and dad’s passports, and place of birth, and suspect the child might also be British. And might hold the family up while they go searching records. But by then you’ve made it to the border and they’d have to let you in anyway.

I can’t see how they would do data matching before travel - and therefore cancel the ETA - because they’d need the birth certificate of the child. If that’s Australian, they wouldn’t have access to it.

And I don’t think that’s going to be a job of the check-in agent!

 

[clifford]

I wonder how my grandkids would go. I am British by decent (my father was born in the UK), and my wife is British through birth.

We registered our daughter at the British High Commission in Canberra (sat her on the counter) when she was a baby, and her husband is a true blue Aussie, who's rarely been out of the country since birth.

If they're anything like their parents, grandmother and uncle, going to the UK would be the last thing on my grandaughters' minds. And who could blame them?

As for me, I always carry 2 passports, which I found to be useful when I lost my British passport en route from the UK to Turkey.

 

[Pushka]

I wonder how my grandkids would go. I am British by decent (my father was born in the UK), and my wife is British through birth.

We registered our daughter at the British High Commission in Canberra (sat her on the counter) when she was a baby, and her husband is a true blue Aussie, who's rarely been out of the country since birth.

If they're anything like their parents, grandmother and uncle, going to the UK would be the last thing on my grandaughters' minds. And who could blame them?

As for me, I always carry 2 passports, which I found to be useful when I lost my British passport en route from the UK to Turkey.

I'm my readings. Your daughter would need to have been born in UK to pass on British citizenship to her daughter. Citizenship by descent is only for one generation unless there are other circumstances.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm my readings. Your daughter would need to have been born in UK to pass on British citizenship to her daughter. Citizenship by descent is only for one generation unless there are other circumstances.

In this case (assuming birth before 1983), because the UK is now going back to fix gender discrimination, it would be possible for the daughter - being born of a British mother in her own right (not by descent) - to register and apply for citizenship. This is not automatic, but it would be a right.

At the moment if you went down this path you’d need to pay the fee and attend a citizenship ceremony, but I’m not sure that requirement would hold up if tested in court. If you didn’t need to attend a citizenship ceremony if your father could pass it on, why do you need to do so if your mother couldn’t at the time, but now can?

I suppose most people aren’t complaining about that though as they’re likely applying for the benefits of the citizenship, and this lath is much cheaper than the alternatives (like ancestors).

 

[lovestotravel]

RNZ.co.nz 19 Feb
British dual nationals with NZ passports no longer need new UK passport
Click bait headline a little over enthusiastic

UK law professor Elspeth Guild

"For travellers embarking on a trip to the UK next week who had British parents but no visible link to the UK, she had some words of comfort.

"Unless the place of birth stated on the passport indicates that the person may have birthright citizenship somewhere else, it is virtually impossible without a detailed investigation to know whether someone is a dual national. This is particularly so where citizenship was acquired through ancestry rather than place of birth."



I'm really regretting applying for the kids UK passports now, they are very much likely not going to arrive in time and the kids will miss Easter with all their UK family

Probably should have just ran the risk and have us enter with Australian passports and let the partner use her UK passport on another flight!

 

[jase05]

Yes

Have since been told that the mother was born in NI but has an Irish passport due to parents.
They have decided to make alternate plans and play it safe

 

[MEL_Traveller]

UK law professor Elspeth Guild

"For travellers embarking on a trip to the UK next week who had British parents but no visible link to the UK, she had some words of comfort.

"Unless the place of birth stated on the passport indicates that the person may have birthright citizenship somewhere else, it is virtually impossible without a detailed investigation to know whether someone is a dual national. This is particularly so where citizenship was acquired through ancestry rather than place of birth."



I'm really regretting applying for the kids UK passports now, they are very much likely not going to arrive in time and the kids will miss Easter with all their UK family

Probably should have just ran the risk and have us enter with Australian passports and let the partner use her UK passport on another flight!

The most likely pinch point will be check-in, theyre the ones to determine if you can travel. And if you have a valid ETA, it’s going to be a hard push for them to do that. Once you’re at the border you’re guaranteed a try if you’re British.

Mum wouldn’t even need to travel on a separate flight… you could split the PNR and mum checks in 15 minutes before (or after) the rest of the family. Little chance of the check-in corresponding the two different groups (for immigration purposes).

 

[lovestotravel]

The most likely pinch point will be check-in, theyre the ones to determine if you can travel. And if you have a valid ETA, it’s going to be a hard push for them to do that. Once you’re at the border you’re guaranteed a try if you’re British.

Mum wouldn’t even need to travel on a separate flight… you could split the PNR and mum checks in 15 minutes before (or after) the rest of the family. Little chance of the check-in corresponding the two different groups (for immigration purposes).

Agree but too late for that now the UK passport office has heaps of documents and it should be the last lot they need maybe....

If they approve and issue the passports with what we have sent, they may arrive back in time before we leave

OR

If they want something else, it means they are not approved/UK Citizens and we won't get the passports in time.

We enter into the EU, for a bit, then travel to the UK by plane..

Either way, if we don't have the passports in our hands, I think we'll just do the ETA and try to check-in. Worst case they say no, and the kids and I do our backup plan which is already booked (except for trains as they are non-refundable so will book at last min if needed)

The flights TO the UK from the EU are refundable as they are business class flexi type fares

Most people have said once you are in the UK, you are in!