Australian Census 2021

RooFlyer

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Your are misrepresenting what I said, taking it our of context. I never suggested we should be gathering data from social media to replace the census or inform social policy now.

Oh. I was looking at this comment of yours, directly comparing the usefulness of social media with that of census. My bad.

Despite RooFlyers aghast at social media as a resource, some site like Linked-In will give a lot of insight to how a persons career changed over their life including who they worked for, location, what duties those jobs entailed and specific education completed. Whereas the census just asks for a title (not very illuminating unless its something obvious like teacher) and highest level of education.
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You may think peoples digital footprint is all lies, more lies and stupid cat videos

May I? How so? And I believe I referred to cat pictures, not cat videos. Are stupid cat videos actually a thing?
 

Lynda2475

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I was looking at this comment of yours, directly comparing the usefulness of social media with that of census

Maybe you should read that again because that is not what it was doing. It was clearly a continuation of the earlier point re gaining insights into an individual ancestor. Nowhere did that post say Linked in should be used for government planning purposes, you made that leap all on your own.
Post automatically merged:

Are stupid cat videos actually a thing?

Possibly, I care not for anything feline related.
 

Lynda2475

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the census gathers data on a consistant basis, nationwide at specified intervals. Everyone gets the same questions, at the same time (give or take with the on-line version). And because all the responses are given under the same conditions and at the same time, unrealted data can be linked (for example, income with place of living; english speaking at home (or not) with other metrics).

Whilst the form is consistent people are not. The census relies on the person completing it to be literate, choosing to take it seriously and answer honestly.

There will be people who don't have the required literacy skills to complete it correctly and there will be those that don't complete it at all. Most will do their best, whilst some will lie.

There is clearly a lot of concern from the census organizers re possible insincere answers, given the ads they are running on the radio currently.

The ABS opted to ignore all those who ticked "other" then wrote "Jedi Knight" on the Religion question in the last couple of census'. Maybe some of those people actually do believe in the force, the official religions listed have some equally crazy ideas.

The census isn't necessarily going to be more accurate than other government sources of information. Which is why comparing and combing census data with other government data (or for commercial use company held data) often gives better insights.

Income is one question which suffers from accuracy concerns. Some people are very distrustful of government, this may lead to them under reporting income on census. The more lazy types will specify a rough income from memory which may be a fair way off the actual mark (especially if they confuse before/after tax). And those working in illegal cash in hand jobs or avoiding tax, aren't any more likely to be honest on the census than they are on their tax return.

The ATO has more nuanced income data, which they do anonymize and make available. Even for those who haven't filed a tax return, the ATO received data due to TFN being captured by banks, employers, government agencies paying benefits, super accounts, shared schemes etc.
 

RooFlyer

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Nowhere did that post say Linked in should be used for government planning purposes, you made that leap all on your own.

And neither did I say that you did. ;). Again, you've fallen into the trap that you very regularly accuse others of. Easy isn't it?

Whilst the form is consistent people are not. The census relies on the person completing it to be literate, choosing to take it seriously and answer honestly.

Ho hum. See again what I noted above:

And yes, some people avoid it, some give wrong answers, some can't be found etc etc. Just like voting at elections. These omissions etc occur every census so the trends remain valid and its the trends that are just as useful as the point data.

Moreover:

Some people are very distrustful of government, this may lead to them under reporting income on census.

I'm kinda sure this occurs on tax returns too. ;) Not by me, of course. And doing the 'cash economy' thing, avoiding tax altogether. And to distort income and tax by various legitimate and nefarious means. You see? Nothing is perfect and every single data set you've put up is not only impure but suffer the additional major disadvantage over census data is that its all collected in different ways, at different times, from different segments of the population, by different agencies, with different levels and types of aggregation. Sure, you can use all that stuff - and people do, but using it with or in relation to census data is like trying to put a jigsaw together where half the bits are from one puzzle and the other half are from 5 others. You'll get a story, in a Picasso sort of way, but you'll never know how far you can stack the house of cards.
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This is good stuff (mangled mataphors aside). Excercises the mind in the importance of the census as a data set, especially over time.
 

jb747

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The last census was effectively a very expensive failure, not only because of the computer issues, but also because their decision to require names meant that it was no longer anonymous. I don't know what the refusal rate was, but I understand that it was high. I wonder if they have learnt anything.
 

HappyFlyerFamily

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The last census was effectively a very expensive failure, not only because of the computer issues, but also because their decision to require names meant that it was no longer anonymous. I don't know what the refusal rate was, but I understand that it was high. I wonder if they have learnt anything.
With IP addresses it will never be anonymous lol
 

jb747

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With IP addresses it will never be anonymous lol
Well a VPN will almost certainly fix that, especially given their demonstrated IT capability. I wonder whose will be the most popular name this year. Basically, by asking for information much of the public is reluctant to give, they ensure a lower involvement rate, and almost certainly up the percentage of b/s answers.
 

Hvr

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The last census was effectively a very expensive failure, not only because of the computer issues, but also because their decision to require names meant that it was no longer anonymous.

Names have always been required on Census forms.

A report citing data destruction in 1971 reads inter alia: "In 1971, the then Treasurer, Hon BM Snedden QC MP, ordered the destruction of all census forms then held by the ABS and directed that census forms for the forthcoming census be destroyed as soon as all the information within them had been transferred to magnetic tape. He advised the public that names and addresses on the census forms would not be transferred to the tape."
See also: Exhibit 1 – Commonwealth Treasury, Press Release No. 28, ‘Destruction of Census Forms’, 1 June 1971

A copy of the 2001 Household Census form can been accessed via this link :2001 Census Household Form

The 2011 Census form is at this link: 2011 Census Household Form – text version

Both of these forms require full name and address.

And this link from the ABS shows that your name has been required since at least 1911. 2903.0 - How Australia Takes a Census, 2011
 

jb747

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Ok, names were required but not kept. It doesn't change the fact that the announced decision to keep them was one of the drivers of people not participating in the last census. Darth does ring a bell....

Sadly, my plan for avoiding this year's was to be overseas.....
 

RooFlyer

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The last census was effectively a very expensive failure, not only because of the computer issues, but also because their decision to require names meant that it was no longer anonymous. I
Names have always been in the census. They are disassociated with the replies for analysis.First census was in England in about 1850. Always had names. Thankfully still preserved, with names.

Ok, names were required but not kept. It doesn't change the fact that the announced decision to keep them was one of the drivers of people not participating in the last census.

What announced decision? Names were kept if, like me, you elected for them to be preserved for release in + 70 years or so. If not, the kept data was much less than people’s annual tax returns or social security cheques. But that’s ok 🤣🥴

People electing not to participate in the census were the same type of people who don’t want to be vaccinated, sovereign citizens etc. Stock up on tinned goods and ammo.
 

RooFlyer

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The ABS will introduce two new questions in the 2021 Census; the first significant changes to questions collected in the Census since 2006. The new questions ask about long-term health conditions, such as arthritis, asthma and diabetes, and Australian Defence Force participation.

The question on internet access in households will no longer be asked, given increased mobile internet usage on personal devices outside the home.
 

Simo

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I wonder if the Work Experience kids are still in the IT department and have an entire nation log in to a one website to do it... It was always going to fail... I haven't seen basically nothing apart from the fact we have to fill it all out in August sometime....
 

jb747

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Income. Ask the ATO.

Religion. Jedi (need a new one).

Race. Last.

Sex. Are you offering it?

Education. Forgotten.

Done.
 
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Pushka

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They have no need to ask for income though. It should be used for statistics that aren't easily obtainable from other official federal resources.
 

jb747

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Done ….

Indeed..and if everyone had that kind of an attitude the country would likely descend into anarchy.
Well, if you’re in Sydney or Melbourne, you probably only have to look out the window (today) to see that. Anarchy on one side, and authoritarianism on the other. I don’t think that will be a census question though.
 
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