ATSB opens investigation into NTL diversion of QF28

[Quickstatus]

The ATSB has opened an investigation into the diversion of QF28 (SCL-SYD) to NTL on 18 Feb 2023

Possible Issues:
1)Minimum fuel after missed approach
2) according to a newspaper, a letter from ATC SYD manager to ATSB supposedly about a chronic shortage of controllers causing reduction in arrival tempo/runway restrictions and therefore delays at SYD which has persisted. Some of the shortage has been blamed on unexpected "sickies" with the paper suggesting that Monday was a problem.
Poor weather at the time exacerbating the ATC shortage

 

[jb747]

A diversion is minimum fuel pretty much by definition!

If you think airliners flying around Oz have loads of fuel, then think again. The legal minimum at the end of the landing roll is 30 minutes.

 

[Quickstatus]

A diversion is minimum fuel pretty much by definition!

I would hope that diversions occur before min fuel. But as you suggest maybe I'm being optimistic..

 

[justinbrett]

I would hope that diversions occur before min fuel. But as you suggest maybe I'm being optimistic..

No, min fuel means you can land but with no extra delays.

 

[jb747]

A declaration of minimum fuel means basically nothing. It used to, but now to get any priority from ATC you have to declare an emergency.

Basically, if you’re going to land with more than 30 minutes left (at the end of the landing roll), then it’s not an emergency. As soon as it projects below that 30 minutes, then it is. So, if ATC have you on a vector that will get you there with 31 minutes…all good. If they then decide to change the sequence and add a couple of minutes…emergency. Oh, and that‘s 30 minutes to dry tanks, and silence.

Most of the times I’ve seen this go astray have been after extensive holding periods, especially where it exceeds the amount listed in the NOTAMs.

If, for instance, you arrive at the destination holding area with enough fuel to divert or to hold for an hour, the two are often mutually exclusive. You might be able to hold for a while and then divert, but not necessarily the whole nominated time. At some point in the holding the divert option may expire. You might elect to divert at that point, or if the weather does not require you to hold the diversion option open (most cases), then once you pass that point you must land at the destination. If, for whatever reason (ATC, weather getting worse than forecast, traffic) you aren’t able to land at the end of the hold then you’re watching all of your options close down, and if you can’t get Scottie to beam up some more fuel, your chances of appearing in a crash comic are going up.

 

[justinbrett]

At some point in the holding the divert option may expire. You might elect to divert at that point, or if the weather does not require you to hold the diversion option open (most cases), then once you pass that point you must land at the destination. If, for whatever reason (ATC, weather getting worse than forecast, traffic) you aren’t able to land at the end of the hold then you’re watching all of your options close down, and if you can’t get Scottie to beam up some more fuel, your chances of appearing in a crash comic are going up.

I had a QF 737 do two missed approaches at DRW, we asked if they were going to divert to Tindal, captain said they didn't have the fuel - they got in on the third attempt.

I can't remember the specifics of the wx but obviously didn't require them to hold TN as an alternate.

Another time during a heavy afternoon storm we put "Runway Flooded" on the ATIS - which it was. Had a long range call from one of the QF jets inbound asking if it was actually flooded, because if it was they'd have to divert to TN immediately. But with the grooved runway and nature of the wx we told him it would be clear in 10-15 minutes so was all good.

 

[jb747]

There are lots of holes in the way weather is covered. And there literally have to be, ‘cos if the planning and limits covered every possible outcome then you’d never be able to go anywhere.