ATR's being removed entirely from QLD routes from July

[Justchecking]

I am just surprised with the removal of ATR-72s. I fly them to CBR and I have no problems with them. I think the speed of mining economy collapse really hurts VA.

Seriously though, if VA are going to fly regional, what is the best aircraft for VA? Surely the ATRs are probably the best bet?

Same, what other choice is there? I did some digging about, the main difference between the ATR and the Dash is speed and cargo space. The Dash can achieve higher frequency in a day because it's on average faster than ATR on the same route by about 15mins per 1.5hrs. But then the ATR is also cheaper on fuel and cheaper to acquire. So did the frequency & cargo issue alone really sink the entire operation? And given the CEO was already intimately familiar with the Dash and it's economics it makes you wonder why he chose the ATR instead IF the Dash is a superior aircraft for the environment.

So now we're seeing VA with a smaller domestic network than in DJ days. Having a contractor operate your routes with their own product isn't a longterm solution and well if you can't fly the route profitably, is it any more profitable to pay someone else to fly the route for you? They're only going to enter that deal IF it makes money for them, no-ones going to line up to take a loss on your behalf.

 

[straitman]

Same, what other choice is there? I did some digging about, the main difference between the ATR and the Dash is speed and cargo space. The Dash can achieve higher frequency in a day because it's on average faster than ATR on the same route by about 15mins per 1.5hrs. But then the ATR is also cheaper on fuel and cheaper to acquire. So did the frequency & cargo issue alone really sink the entire operation? And given the CEO was already intimately familiar with the Dash and it's economics it makes you wonder why he chose the ATR instead IF the Dash is a superior aircraft for the environment.

I suspect the answer is that they purchased the ATR after doing extensive research on all aspects of the operation including purchase price and operating costs. The CEO probably has little input at the assessment level as that's why he/they employ their team of 'experts'. Having a different a/c to the opposition can be a benefit IF you get it right.

So now we're seeing VA with a smaller domestic network than in DJ days.

Having an airline that's continually losing money is not a long term option. (obviously) I see that VA are doing a similar thing to what QF did a few years ago in pulling their horns in and minimising types until they get it all under control again. Minimising types in a fleet also minimises costs.

Having a contractor operate your routes with their own product isn't a long term solution and well if you can't fly the route profitably, is it any more profitable to pay someone else to fly the route for you? They're only going to enter that deal IF it makes money for them, no-ones going to line up to take a loss on your behalf.

It is a relative norm in the airline industry for airlines to operate routes in name only and to have them run by others. Qantas does it on multiple routes. Different sized companies with different structures can have quite different levels of cost.

 

[eastwest101]

Having an airline that's continually losing money is not a long term option. (obviously) I see that VA are doing a similar thing to what QF did a few years ago in pulling their horns in and minimising types until they get it all under control again. Minimising types in a fleet also minimises costs.

Agree with all of those comments - it makes perfect sense to simplify the fleet (especially when under financial pressure) but they are removing two types from service E190 and ATR-72-600(?), actually four - if you include B737-700 and E170s but they still have 2 ex-Skywest A320s knocking around and a host of F100s (understandably the F100s are much more suitable aircraft for WA)? Then you have the weird transition of TT from sole A320s to a mixture of A320s and B738s so they have made life even more complicated for themselves here in that they have not enough A320 pilots so are paying to have A320s idle at a massive lease cost and too many B738 pilots and not enough TT B738 aircraft.

They often seem to use the wrong aeroplane at the wrong place at the wrong time as well in my experience - I don't know how many times I've seen E190s packed to the gills flying between SYD-BNE and then when you get to BNE its half empty B738s to CNS TSV ROK etc. I think VA can count themselves lucky that pax demand has dropped in some places so they can simplify their fleet because we see idle VA aircraft all over the place - which considering lease rates - doesn't seem like a smart use of aircraft/capital to me.

I suspect there is possibly another driver going on here that may relate to what aircraft are leased and what are owned and how hideous the leases costs are and how punishing the exit costs from some leases are, and possibly some depreciation and tax treatment of assets as well?

Another thing to consider is that VA have been crew constrained for a while with the freeze on hiring and training until recently they are quite literally out of options in the pilot and cabin crew department due to natural attrition.

There doesn't seem to be any logic, long term planning or forethought going on here, seems like they are so busy putting out localized spot fires that they haven't noticed that their entire house is falling apart.

 

[Bagpuss]

they still have 2 ex-Skywest A320s knocking around and a host of F100s (understandably the F100s are much more suitable aircraft for WA)?

I heard from "galley FM" that the two VARA a320's are going as they keep breaking down.

I do question the future of the F100's. OK for the next 5 years probably but after that. They currently range in age from about 22 - 26 years.

 

[craven morehead]

I notice lately Alliance replacing at least one ATR flight into EMD. Daily I believe.

 

[Bagpuss]

I notice lately Alliance replacing at least one ATR flight into EMD. Daily I believe.

You can also find Alliance operating Tigerair flights:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vh-xwm

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/tt528

 

[jb747]

And given the CEO was already intimately familiar with the Dash and it's economics it makes you wonder why he chose the ATR instead IF the Dash is a superior aircraft for the environment.

What experience was that? He was mainline, nothing to do with the regionals.

 

[Bagpuss]

I only had one experience on a ATR and it was from PQQ to SYD.

It was a bit of bad weather (in my case wasn't too bad) QantasLink Dash8 landed OK, but it was not possible for the ATR to land (the ATR had started circling before the Dash8 arrived). The ATR flew back to SYD to refuel and then came back in which it then circled for ages in order to land.

The airport staff stated (correctly or not) that the ATR couldnt land as it has less sophisticated weather systems than the Dash, which I seemed a bit strange to me.
From the one and only experience (naturally 100% biased) they seemed like a bad aircraft for the route map.

 

[Justchecking]

The airport staff stated (correctly or not) that the ATR couldnt land as it has less sophisticated weather systems than the Dash, which I seemed a bit strange to me.

I wouldn't put much stock in anything the 'airport staff' might tell you. Most of the time they're making it up, or they are misinformed.

Personally, I'll be sad to see the ATR go just because it was a different aircraft type plying our skies.

 

[jb747]

It was a bit of bad weather (in my case wasn't too bad) QantasLink Dash8 landed OK, but it was not possible for the ATR to land (the ATR had started circling before the Dash8 arrived). The ATR flew back to SYD to refuel and then came back in which it then circled for ages in order to land.

The airport staff stated (correctly or not) that the ATR couldnt land as it has less sophisticated weather systems than the Dash, which I seemed a bit strange to me.
From the one and only experience (naturally 100% biased) they seemed like a bad aircraft for the route map.

Aircraft, and crews, do have differing capabilities. Port MacQuarie has quite limited approach aids....only an NDB, and more recently GNSS approaches. Depending upon when your event happened, the Virgin crew may not have had the ability to make use of the GNSS approaches. Even across an airline like QF, not all aircraft and crews have the same level of certification.

 

[thebmw]

I heard from "galley FM" that the two VARA a320's are going as they keep breaking down.

That's nothing new though. From memory when they had just one for the Cloudbreak charter, it was a regular occurrence to have it replaced by a pair of F100s.

It got to the point where it was a bit of a news story on site that it made it a whole week/fortnight without going tech.

 

[Must...Fly!]

It got to the point where it was a bit of a news story on site that it made it a whole week/fortnight without going tech.

You should have seen the parties in the ops areas.