Ask The Pilot

[AviatorInsight]

Question for the pilots… as a passenger, if you see this, what can you do? Do you assume the captain knows what they are doing? That aircraft will alert to being improperly configured at some point before takeoff? Do you attempt to notify cabin crew (likely difficult, and even if you were at a crewed exit, would the crew act?) Or do you just hope for the best?

Reading the comments it appears the pilots didnt file a safety report, but the passenger sent the video to the airline, which subsequently did. The wetlease arrangements - and allegedly the captain as well - were terminated.

If I’m a passenger? No. I will assume the crew forgot to taxi out with the flaps down. You could attempt to notify the crew by continuously ringing the call bell, but this is a 737 and unless you’re at the very front or the very back, you wouldn’t be able to tell them directly.

The aircraft will tell you with a blaring Take Off Config warning horn if you push the thrust levers up which, to me is exactly what happened. But to then put them down and subsequently continue the take off is shocking.

I’m glad the passenger reported it to the airline.

*side note: the only time you would taxi out with the flaps up is if the taxi route is through ice, snow, slush or standing water in low temperatures or if precipitation is falling with temperatures below
freezing. Taxiing with the flaps extended subjects the flaps and flap drives to contamination. The leading edge devices are also susceptible to slush accumulation.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thanks jb747 and Aviatorinsight.

So as a passenger we assume (hope) that the final safeguard will be the configuration warning at the start of takeoff. And hope no other issues have disabled that warning (Swiss Cheese).

 

[Quickstatus]

As a passenger I don’t see that there is much you could do at the time.

If I recall, apparently the fellow was flying with his father who apparently was an 747 captain. The father said his son tried to run up to the front to try to let the pilots know.

 

[jb747]

*side note: the only time you would taxi out with the flaps up is if the taxi route is through ice, snow, slush or standing water in low temperatures or if precipitation is falling with temperatures below
freezing. Taxiing with the flaps extended subjects the flaps and flap drives to contamination. The leading edge devices are also susceptible to slush accumulation.

And if you do taxi out like that, the checklist should either not start, or be held at flaps. You can't go past something and come back.

 

[Quickstatus]

Retired ATR captain and YTuber questions the Germanwings accident report.

Comments appreciated

 

[jb747]

The emergency access code had to be actively denied. About as intentional as you get.

 

[elanshin]

@jb and AI
Just came across this landing in coughet
Curious about your comments on it and how hard of a landing does it need to be to have the nosegear come off like that?

https://twitter.com/x/status/2031675483595682228

 

[RooFlyer]

The emergency access code had to be actively denied. About as intentional as you get.

Unless the keypad was faulty (#2), which was mentioned. No start-of-day check required, either.

We talk of the Swiss cheese holes lining up of airline faults/errors, each rare/unlikely. FWIW I think this video seems to make a case of that, not involving intentionality.

 

[jb747]

It's a case that is built on wishful thinking, and likes.

 

[jb747]

@jb and AI
Just came across this landing in coughet
Curious about your comments on it and how hard of a landing does it need to be to have the nosegear come off like that?

The google AI answers this pretty well...Porpoising a dangerous, pilot-induced oscillation (PIO) where the nose repeatedly rises and falls during landing, often caused by over-controlling, improper speed/trim, or excessive flare. It often results from the pilot trying to "force" the aircraft onto the runway.

The G increases with each hit, but could easily be in the 3-5 region. Nose gear is not meant to land on.