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jb747

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How do pilots who may have sat in the left seat of aircraft like the C17 go? Or even the RAAF's VIP fleet? What ages would they be at a minimum?
Like everything...they vary. As you'd expect, the ex RAAF people can all fly, but they have virtually zero exposure (even the VIP & C17 people) to the world of airline operations. They could, easily enough, slot into the right hand seat on arrival. When the time comes, not all of them pass command training.

It must be frustrating for them to have to sit in the jump seat for a long time after being in command, themselves.
Well, they don't have to join if they don't want to...and I doubt that it's any more frustrating than it is for the fighter people, and they have a greater percentage of command time.
 

VPS

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After the Vueling tragedy there seemed to be a thing that there couldn't be only one person in the cockpit and I used to see the FA go into the cockpit when one of the pilots came out but that doesn't seem to occur any more. Have they relaxed the regulations
 

AviatorInsight

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After the Vueling tragedy there seemed to be a thing that there couldn't be only one person in the cockpit and I used to see the FA go into the cockpit when one of the pilots came out but that doesn't seem to occur any more. Have they relaxed the regulations
Yes they have, I’m glad they did and so are the cabin crew.
 
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jb747

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After the Vueling tragedy there seemed to be a thing that there couldn't be only one person in the cockpit and I used to see the FA go into the cockpit when one of the pilots came out but that doesn't seem to occur any more. Have they relaxed the regulations
Vueling? Wasn’t it Germanwings?

It was an ill thought out, knee jerk reaction, which introduced more danger without reducing the risk at all. As a little experiment, just after it came in, we had a play with a few scenarios in the sim. You could easily get the aircraft totally out of control, even with a pilot in the other seat, so what conceivable use would a cabin crew person be.
 

VPS

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Vueling? Wasn’t it Germanwings?

It was an ill thought out, knee jerk reaction, which introduced more danger without reducing the risk at all. As a little experiment, just after it came in, we had a play with a few scenarios in the sim. You could easily get the aircraft totally out of control, even with a pilot in the other seat, so what conceivable use would a cabin crew person be.
Sorry - my bad - I should have checked the name of the airline.
 

eric2011

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Vueling? Wasn’t it Germanwings?

It was an ill thought out, knee jerk reaction, which introduced more danger without reducing the risk at all. As a little experiment, just after it came in, we had a play with a few scenarios in the sim. You could easily get the aircraft totally out of control, even with a pilot in the other seat, so what conceivable use would a cabin crew person be.
Was it put in place so that the cabin crew could help the locked out pilot or first officer to get back in or were they there to "take out" the aggressor. If the latter that could have been just as bad if not worse
 

jb747

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Was it put in place so that the cabin crew could help the locked out pilot or first officer to get back in or were they there to "take out" the aggressor. If the latter that could have been just as bad if not worse
It was purely for them to open the door. Sadly that was very poorly communicated, and many had no idea what they were there for.
 

jb747

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Pilots, in this article (Plane passenger gets flight to himself and shares epic video of experience) it notes that due to so few passengers and crew they needed to load sand bags.

Before reading this I wasn't aware that a plane could be underweight. Out of curiosity, what are the consequences of being underweight in terms of performance / handling, safety and any other impacts?
I don’t know that it would have been underweight, but carriage of ballast to get the CofG within limits happens. Nothing I’ve flown had a minimum weight. I’ve delivered 747s and 380s to maintenance facilities with noting but a couple of pilots.
 

Fergo747

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I don’t know that it would have been underweight, but carriage of ballast to get the CofG within limits happens. Nothing I’ve flown had a minimum weight. I’ve delivered 747s and 380s to maintenance facilities with noting but a couple of pilots.
Thanks JB. That makes more sense to me given it looked like a regional jet (CRJ I believe) with engines at the rear and wings further back which would indicate to me that CofG would be toward the rear necessitating the need for ballast.
 

Quickstatus

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Do the reasons for distrusting PER weather partly arise because there are really no suitable alternates airports?. PER could be considered an island surrounded by sea and desert (unless the Nullarbor Highway is a runway)?

Can a 737 from the East Coast to PER carry enough fuel to go back to the East Coast, given the usual payloads?
 

jb747

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Do the reasons for distrusting PER weather partly arise because there are really no suitable alternates airports?. PER could be considered an island surrounded by sea and desert (unless the Nullarbor Highway is a runway)?
It's a very isolated airport. The nearest alternate for a real heavy is Learmonth, and that's not exactly overcome with facilities. When I was flying the 767 there, Kalgoorlie was usable, but only until the first heavy went there, and then it wouldn't have any apron space.
 

SeatBackForward

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It's a very isolated airport. The nearest alternate for a real heavy is Learmonth, and that's not exactly overcome with facilities. When I was flying the 767 there, Kalgoorlie was usable, but only until the first heavy went there, and then it wouldn't have any apron space.
And this is what amazes me about the LHR_PER non-stop flight. Once the plane trakcs over the Indian Ocean, there are not many alternatives I Imagine for the last few hours of the flight. Do they just carry so-much surplus fuel or is a decision for an alternative made well before?
 

jb747

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And this is what amazes me about the LHR_PER non-stop flight. Once the plane trakcs over the Indian Ocean, there are not many alternatives I Imagine for the last few hours of the flight. Do they just carry so-much surplus fuel or is a decision for an alternative made well before?
The alternates don't really narrow down until a couple of hours from Perth. Probably the only thing that makes the operation viable at all, is the fact that the prevailing wind on the return flight is from the west, so that means that the planned burn will always be less on the flight to Perth from London. I'm not familiar with the 787, but I've been told that it can potentially carry fuel to get to Adelaide.

The issue with any fuel planning is that decisions need to be made so many hours before your arrival, that the weather is often dramatically different to the forecast. Mostly, unless the weather forecast was such that it was necessary, the company plan will not have any allowance for holding or diversions, so it's possible to be well and truly caught out, unless you're cautious, carry more than minimum, and keep a good eye on what is happening around you.
 
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Extraordinary vision of passengers walking through corn fields after the emergency landing of a flight in Moscow. The pilots are quite rightly being hailed as heroes for landing the jet. My questions are :

- Have our AFF pilots done landings like this during your sim training? Is it something tested regularly?

- Based on the very limited detail we have on this emergency, is there anything you would have done differently such as dropping the landing gear?

- Based on your flying experience/knowledge what odds would you give a good pilot of landing in a field? Presumably an element of luck was involved such as the airport being surrounded by forrest.
 

jb747

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Extraordinary vision of passengers walking through corn fields after the emergency landing of a flight in Moscow. The pilots are quite rightly being hailed as heroes for landing the jet. My questions are :

- Have our AFF pilots done landings like this during your sim training? Is it something tested regularly?
No. It's never practiced. Basically, we don't practice crashing. Multiple engine failures are a regular part of training, even the extreme case of loss of all engines. But, it's not ever done in a scenario in which the only possible outcome is crashing.

- Based on the very limited detail we have on this emergency, is there anything you would have done differently such as dropping the landing gear?
When pilots start their basic training, right back at zero hours, they're told that in case of engine failure after take off, the best solution is simply to continue straight ahead. By all means deviate a few degrees to miss a tree, but don't try to manoeuvre the aircraft. It would seem that that's basically what has been done here.

There's the normal noise on prune about lowering the landing gear. Was the gear even retracted? This event started more or less on the runway. We don't really know just how the engines degraded. If it manifested as one failure initially, the crew would fall into the procedure for an engine failure, which would require the gear to be retracted as soon as possible to get rid of the drag and allow the aircraft to accelerate. From the video, it looks like it never accelerated, and has basically mushed into the ground. The gear takes time to go up, or down, and I doubt that a selection to down would be complete before impact. The fact that the aircraft is intact makes me think his configuration choice was ok.

- Based on your flying experience/knowledge what odds would you give a good pilot of landing in a field? Presumably an element of luck was involved such as the airport being surrounded by forrest.
A huge amount of luck. Consider the same case off any one of Sydney's runways. Or Melbourne. Most airports aren't surrounded by landing friendly corn fields. Aircraft have been landed successfully in the middle of nowhere, but most of the time, I'd consider it extremely unlikely.

This is possibly one of the best examples: TACA Flight 110 - Wikipedia
 
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OZDUCK

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It's a very isolated airport. The nearest alternate for a real heavy is Learmonth, and that's not exactly overcome with facilities. When I was flying the 767 there, Kalgoorlie was usable, but only until the first heavy went there, and then it wouldn't have any apron space.
Putting on the "back in my day'" hat.' In the 1960/70's and I think 1980's Meekatharra used to be the Perth alternate - Tammy Fraser certainly enjoyed it. Memories of Meekatharra

Is the runaway still in shape? It certainly used to be able to handle 707 size a/c as I recall a few diversions there when I was working at Perth Airport in the mid 1970's.
I understand that the facilities, were to say the least, primitive but some refuelling was done there I think.
 

AviatorInsight

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Do the reasons for distrusting PER weather partly arise because there are really no suitable alternates airports?. PER could be considered an island surrounded by sea and desert (unless the Nullarbor Highway is a runway)?

Can a 737 from the East Coast to PER carry enough fuel to go back to the East Coast, given the usual payloads?
Sorry it’s taken a couple of days but it’s all about planned alternates. Geraldton and Kalgoorlie are suitable for the 737. With typical payloads that can be almost max fuel. So no definitely can’t even hold Adelaide let alone an east coast port.

I think people distrust PER weather because they’ve been caught out on unforecast weather before. The alternates themselves can get choked up pretty quick with aircraft before they can no longer be an alternate for other aircraft.

Similar thing happens for CNS. I’ll always carry TSV even if the weather doesn’t require it.
 

AviatorInsight

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Putting on the "back in my day'" hat.' In the 1960/70's and I think 1980's Meekatharra used to be the Perth alternate - Tammy Fraser certainly enjoyed it. Memories of Meekatharra

Is the runaway still in shape? It certainly used to be able to handle 707 size a/c as I recall a few diversions there when I was working at Perth Airport in the mid 1970's.
I understand that the facilities, were to say the least, primitive but some refuelling was done there I think.
Never been there, but Forrest was built during the Ansett/TAA days as an enroute alternate before ETOPS came in. It sits nicely between ADL and Kalgoorlie. We still use it these days for that purpose to avoid it being an EDTO flight, but in reality you’re not going there unless you’re on fire. There is absolutely nothing around. You’ll be able to get in there but struggle to get out again.
 

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