Article: Why Are So Many Melbourne-Sydney Flights Cancelled?

[AFF Editor]

Why Are So Many Melbourne-Sydney Flights Cancelled? is an article written by the AFF editorial team:

https://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/why-many-melbourne-sydney-flights-cancelled/

You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.

 

[Melburnian1]

A good article, but it omitted how in addition to the SYD aircraft movement limit of 80 per hour, there's a second one of 'no more than 20' IIRC during each quarter hour period. Apparently at times this creates additional delays.

I wonder if air traffic controllers are deliberately taking excessive "sick days" off, and co-ordinating this among colleagues as workers at the wharves have been known to do.

I'd be certain airlines cancel one flight if it's going to be poorly patronised on a high frequency route, provided it can handle the resultant passenger loadings in each direction. There doesn't seem a pattern to this: we might think that the xx15 and xx45 timetabled departures were the first to disappear, but that doesn't necessarily occur.

The punctuality on MEL-SYD-MEL, a separate problem, is also often poor. It never approaches the excellent level of many overseas high speed rail operators.

 

[brokenagain]

Regarding the shortages of air traffic controllers, the holes in the Swiss cheese are well and truly lining up. How the complete mismanagement of air traffic control staffing is not front page news yet is shocking, despite the fluff word reassurances of AsA management. It’s about time some serious journalistic questions are asked of AsA and CAsA.

This thread on Pprune regarding large areas of airspace closure between Sydney and Brisbane for half the day today.
BN FIR TIBA 29 June 2023

And an ATSB REPCON by multiple controllers at Sydney almost pleading for something to be done, all dismissed by AsA (and CAsA by extension). I wonder how a crash would affect management KPIs and bonuses?
ATSB REPCON

 

[744]

Flights over the MELSYDMEL were routinely being consolidated due loads when I was in the IOC and I quit in 2013.

 

[PERLHR]

It's kind of a non article to be honest. On busy trunk routes anywhere this happens and is probably a combination of events....crew hours, crew availability, maybe loads and strategic re loading of pax, it happens say London to Glasgow or Edinburgh, Madrid to Barcelona, Frankfurt to Munich etc. Obviously it is easier to canx high density routes than those scheduled once or twice a day. I believe though in Australia crew absentee issues remain?

 

[Greg555]

If I had to choose who to believe on this issue - it wouldn't be Qantas....

Same goes for really anything else you might like to raise.

#SackGoyder

 

[Melburnian1]

If I had to choose who to believe on this issue - it wouldn't be Qantas....

Same goes for really anything else you might like to raise.

#SackGoyder

Yes, Mr Goyder by all accounts was well regarded when he was at Wesfarmers.

Note the past tense, though wary of going off topic.

 

[ansett7e7]

Taking the point of @PERLHR I hear a substantial part of the problem is caused by crew who cal in ‘fatigued’ at the last moment. They are able todo so if they feel that they aren’t fit to fly due to illness, tiredness or a multitude of other reasons. Some if it is related to Union actions too.

I have been on a SYD-MEL flight which was almost fully loaded when a FA decided they were fatigued and walked off…leaving the flight ultimately cancelled.

 

[RooFlyer]

Not MEL-SYD, but an illustration of some of the stress on the east coast ATC environment:

Domestic flight chaos blamed on airspace restrictions between Brisbane and Sydney

Dozens of flights have been cancelled or delayed along the nation’s east coast on Thursday due to a severe shortage of air traffic controllers that led to the effective closure of airspace to the south of Brisbane.

A Qantas spokesman said 100 flights had been delayed across the group, and 10 services were cancelled because of the airspace restrictions.

Virgin Australia was also hit hard. Flights to and from Brisbane, the Gold Coast and Ballina were forced to operate around the uncontrolled airspace, which added time and distance.

An Airservices Australia spokeswoman confirmed the airspace restrictions from 6am to 1.30pm on Thursday due to “short term, unplanned air traffic controller leave impacting en route airspace between Sydney and Brisbane”.

“During this period, we will manage the airspace safely by implementing internationally recognised procedures and continuing to provide a flight information service, a search and rescue alerting service and a safety alerting service using an air traffic controller who will monitor the frequency the pilots are operating on and surveil the airspace,” the spokeswoman said.

 

[clifford]

As an ex-employee of the CAA (until Airservices), I can certainly understand the current staff being incensed at the death by a thousand cuts, but they also really need to think about upping their game to be on a similar operational level with those in the USA and the UK.

I guess it's chicken and egg really, so hope's out the window...

 

[Doddler]

Affected passengers should have the right to know exactly what the cause of the cancellation was. If airlines were required by law to provide this information alongside the cancellation notice, with standard consumer protection penalties for providing incorrect information, maybe this wouldn't be such an issue.

 

[Melburnian1]

It's kind of a non article to be honest. On busy trunk routes anywhere this happens and is probably a combination of events....crew hours, crew availability, maybe loads and strategic re loading of pax, it happens say London to Glasgow or Edinburgh, Madrid to Barcelona, Frankfurt to Munich etc. Obviously it is easier to canx high density routes than those scheduled once or twice a day. I believe though in Australia crew absentee issues remain?

What's another difference between the routes in Europe you mention and ours?

Theirs are all subject (above) to severe competition from comfortable high speed trains, which with the recent exception of Germany are often on time to the minute, and a far more pleasant overall travelling experience.

I have been to all three nations mentioned within the last year. Madrid to Barcelona now has three competing rail operators, and as in the UK and Germany, the trains are extremely well patronised.

I would never fly on any of the above routes unless there was an all-encompassing rail strike, and even then there may be surface alternatives. The trains are way superior, and deliver one to bustling, often attractive city centres not to some coughpy, sterile airport that lacks the shopping available at railway stations and can be way out of town. (Granted, Barcelona Sants is not 'central' but a metro station is handy for a quick transfer to what's regarded as the heart).

 

[Ade]

Past couple of weeks a lot of CBR-SYD/MEL flights were consolidated. QF made announcements to the effect "if you don't have a carry on bag and would like to fly early, come see service desk opposite Gate 11" and in one instance, a flight was cancelled and QF announced " QFxx_x is now cancelled and pax are re-booked to fly on VAxx_"

The gossip I hear at CBR airport is there will be more cancellations and consolidations - simply because there are not enough pax flying CBR-SYD/MEL routes.

The whole delay saga QF and VA are going thru between CBR-MEL/SYD is concerning because I have tight connections on my upcoming international trip in a weeks' time. I think I'm going to call QF and see if they can get me to SYD the night before ... just to be safe! talking to some baggage handlers at CBR ....I'm also wary of checking in bags because if the flights are delayed, then chances are bags won't make it ...

 

[Melburnian1]

Past couple of weeks a lot of CBR-SYD/MEL flights were consolidated. QF made announcements to the effect "if you don't have a carry on bag and would like to fly early, come see service desk opposite Gate 11" and in one instance, a flight was cancelled and QF announced " QFxx_x is now cancelled and pax are re-booked to fly on VAxx_"

The gossip I hear at CBR airport is there will be more cancellations and consolidations - simply because there are not enough pax flying CBR-SYD/MEL routes.

The whole delay saga QF and VA are going thru between CBR-MEL/SYD is concerning because I have tight connections on my upcoming international trip in a weeks' time. I think I'm going to call QF and see if they can get me to SYD the night before ... just to be safe! talking to some baggage handlers at CBR ....I'm also wary of checking in bags because if the flights are delayed, then chances are bags won't make it ...

Historically, when using CBR flights I generally found the 'first of the morning' at say 0600 to 0630 generally were able to depart on a (to be) foggy morning, but from especially 0800, it was highly doubtful, as both departures and arrivals were unable to operate.

Your caution is prudent.

 

[Skyring]

Historically, when using CBR flights I generally found the 'first of the morning' at say 0600 to 0630 generally were able to depart on a (to be) foggy morning, but from especially 0800, it was highly doubtful, as both departures and arrivals were unable to operate.

Your caution is prudent.

This has long been my thinking but a couple of weeks ago I found that my 0600 to SYD was delayed due to fog. Perhaps it is something that only affects Dash-8s?

I wrote about the situation here.

 

[OATEK]

Past couple of weeks a lot of CBR-SYD/MEL flights were consolidated. QF made announcements to the effect "if you don't have a carry on bag and would like to fly early, come see service desk opposite Gate 11" and in one instance, a flight was cancelled and QF announced " QFxx_x is now cancelled and pax are re-booked to fly on VAxx_"

The gossip I hear at CBR airport is there will be more cancellations and consolidations - simply because there are not enough pax flying CBR-SYD/MEL routes.

The whole delay saga QF and VA are going thru between CBR-MEL/SYD is concerning because I have tight connections on my upcoming international trip in a weeks' time. I think I'm going to call QF and see if they can get me to SYD the night before ... just to be safe! talking to some baggage handlers at CBR ....I'm also wary of checking in bags because if the flights are delayed, then chances are bags won't make it ...

We have cousins in Canberra who will never try to connect same day to international flights, owing to fog and general cancellations. After some misses and near misses they would rather cough up for a hotel overnight.

The cancellations are something of a result also of moving crew to different aircraft during the day. The number of times I have heard "we are waiting for pilots/FAs from an incoming flight" never fails to amaze me. And that is something that BA do a lot as well.

But while I can see that compensation regimes may work at times in EU/UK, in a massive market, I can only see increased costs leading to higher fares in our relatively small market. I would rather see cancellation leading to better refund rights rather than "fines".

I hold the view that airlines have as their goal to fly passengers to and fro, and do that fairly successfully most of the time.

 

[JohnK]

I'm not sure I hold the same thought @OATEK.

We are flying BNE-SIN at midnight on Sunday night at beginning of Queensland September school holidays.

I'd like to take daughter to SYD on Friday night and return to BNE Sunday morning but I'm scared of delays/cancellations that will cause us to miss international flight.

That's not a good thought but airlines are not doing anything to calm that fear. In fact it's the exact opposite. Quite sad really.

 

[Ade]

never try to connect same day to international flights

That is the way I do as well, but this time - I was extremely busy (EOFY) and the whole getting to MEL/SYD the day/night before completely slipped my mind. I tried calling QBR yday to have the booking changed - but was quoted over $1k difference in fare, so chose not to ... but I'm genuinely worried for next week ... fingers crossed ...

 

[Melburnian1]

But while I can see that compensation regimes may work at times in EU/UK, in a massive market, I can only see increased costs leading to higher fares in our relatively small market. I would rather see cancellation leading to better refund rights rather than "fines".

I hold the view that airlines have as their goal to fly passengers to and fro, and do that fairly successfully most of the time.

Nothing would teach airlines like Qantas/Jetstar/Virgin Australia that they need to up their act than the presence of costly fines for delays.

They'd do everything possible to avoid paying, claiming (say) weather was to blame, but not always so.

Like JohnK, I don't hold the same view as you.

 

[OATEK]

Nothing would teach airlines like Qantas/Jetstar/Virgin Australia that they need to up their act than the presence of costly fines for delays.

They'd do everything possible to avoid paying, claiming (say) weather was to blame, but not always so.

Like JohnK, I don't hold the same view as you.

Then who do you think would end up paying the fines if not the travelling public (as higher fares)? Just look at what happened to the AFFer who chased AY and finished up losing big time. The airlines will always find a way to have the travelling public pay - I don't see that they have any other choice.