Article: Should Airlines Keep Lounges Open for Delayed Flights?

[Beano]

There are many industries where people are asked to do overtime, sometimes at the last minute, the hospitality industry included. What's the difference with airline lounge staff? Aren't you, as a business traveller, doing the same! I try and avoid late flights, but sometimes can't help it, so arriving at 1 am in a city after 8 hrs travelling and having to be up at 6 am to meet business requirements must sometimes be endured.

 

[henrus]

A couple of years ago I flew VA SYD to BNE last flight of the day. There were rolling weather delays and just two flights left mine to BNE and the other to MEL (the rest had been cancelled meaning a huge crowd at the VA lounge reception). After mostly clearing the crowd (telling those with luggage to head to check in) they closed the lounge at around 10:00pm. Our BNE flight boarded about 10 mins later but the MEL flight was delayed another 40 odd minutes which meant many people kicked out of the lounge (mostly on the MEL flight) grabbed their drinks including whole bottles of wine from the buffet and walked off into the food court.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I have a counterpoint to the Air Canada anecdote that Matt shared earlier. Back in July 2022 I was flying back to Sydney with Air Canada (in business class if that means anything) connecting in Vancouver from Toronto. I arrive in Vancouver at 9:30 PM and walk the 50 metres to pass the passport check and enter the international departures concourse (where the International Maple Leaf lounge is). I immediately head to the lounge and do my normal routine (shower, meal, etc.) as boarding was to be called soon. To my surprise, the flight gets delayed by about 2 hours. At the same time, AC37 (the only other flight that night in the international area) also to Sydney was also delayed. Nonetheless, the lounge remained open well past its 23:00 closing time. Could it be that maybe this was the international lounge, and so there is more of an expectation that services like lounges be open? I'm not certain. But I think that raises an important question, do lounge opening policies vary between domestic and international terminals even for the same airline? For instance, would the Qantas First lounge close in Melbourne even if the last QFi of the day hasn't yet departed?

In terms of what airlines should do in these situations, I do have some thoughts. First, they can provide passengers in the lounge with a parting gift (i.e. a bag full of snacks and light food options) before they leave the lounge. In that way they can have something to eat as usually for late night departures all the restaurants and concessions are closed. A more ambitious thing would be having a lounge within a lounge concept which consists of a small room cordoned off for these late delays. In this way, the cleaners can do what they need to do, and then when the flights are called the room can also be closed and cleaned. Part of it is also the fault of the airport authority. I mean if the airport had plenty of seating with tables you can work from, that would be one thing. But generally with my experience at airports you are lucky to find a seat (and a powerpoint).

-RooFlyer88

 

[Rayhyde]

We had a situation in Hong Kong in April where our Qantas plane back to Sydney was delayed by 7 1/2 hrs. The lounge staff were fantastic. The plane was due to leave at 1700 but didn't leave until 0150 the next day. the staff kept the lounge open, feeding us right up till the plane boarded.
I could not fault their dedication to their passengers.
Thankyou Qantas.

 

[Berlin]

What a timely article- we’re currently stuck at Schipol airport and while pretty much every flight here is delayed tonight, KLM just kicked us out quite rudely from the lounge.

Lots of VERY unhappy people as staff wasn’t exactly very diplomatic about it. Which seems to be, sadly, generally a KLM trait these days. So not, not only Virgin and Qantas…

 

[Seat0B]

Transport considerations for relatively lowly paid workers is an issue, I doubt many park at the airport.

Obviously it depends what has been negotiated but very many employers offer taxis or an uber home for staff working late. And often back the next morning if it was unexpected and their car was stranded. Even as a very small business employer we did this whenever staff worked back.

 

[Seat0B]

All of the IR issues are eminently solvable, if the business is actually interested in doing so (which tells me that neither QF or VA particularly care).

I have mediated far more complex overtime situations and quite often workers don’t actually mind the overtime, but it’s solving the managerial approval and transportation issues that makes or breaks it. Workers hate having to chase up their employer to pay their overtime and also hate being stuck at the airport after the last train or bus has gone.

Need to have someone there on hand to auto-approve overtime and provide cabcharge/uber vouchers, and also make sure that the late roster is not filled with people who have children/caring responsibilities.

Yes! Exactly. And if a business the size of mine (20 employees at its biggest) could sort it out, you’d think big ones could too if they really wanted to. Which is the real point, isn’t it.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

We had a situation in Hong Kong in April where our Qantas plane back to Sydney was delayed by 7 1/2 hrs. The lounge staff were fantastic. The plane was due to leave at 1700 but didn't leave until 0150 the next day. the staff kept the lounge open, feeding us right up till the plane boarded.
I could not fault their dedication to their passengers.
Thankyou Qantas.

Hopefully your trip started in Europe/Canada so you could claim compensation under EU261 for the delay.

Obviously it depends what has been negotiated but very many employers offer taxis or an uber home for staff working late. And often back the next morning if it was unexpected and their car was stranded. Even as a very small business employer we did this whenever staff worked back.

Completely understand the constraints on lounges, particularly those where the airport isn't open 24/7. But even then, one must ask, aren't flight delays foreseeable? And if so, could they not have a contingency in place to at the very least minimize the annoyance to passengers in the lounge? This is one of the reasons why I like concepts such as the Air Canada Café lounge with its grab and go food options. Yes the lounge may have to close at 21:30, but if my flight over to Vancouver is delayed to 11, at the very least I can grab some food and have a small snack whilst I wait at the gate for boarding. It doesn't cost the lounge much and it can really take some of the edge off a delay.

-RooFlyer88

 

[jb747]

So, can I understand from this, that those of you who work would be happy to have unplanned overtime, with no particular end point, and no warning, as a normal day to day happening.

 

[Balus1]

Flight delays and disruptions affect a lot more than just lounge staff. Pilots, cabin crew, ramp staff, ground operations, duty managers and cleaners also stay back to get the job done.

Lounges should always stay open until the last flight has commenced boarding, whatever the circumstances.

The failure here as always lies within the executive management levels of the airlines.

 

[Beano]

Flight delays and disruptions affect a lot more than just lounge staff. Pilots, cabin crew, ramp staff, ground operations, duty managers and cleaners also stay back to get the job done.

Lounges should always stay open until the last flight has commenced boarding, whatever the circumstances.

The failure here as always lies within the executive management levels of the airlines.

Just about to make the same points.

 

[Human]

So, can I understand from this, that those of you who work would be happy to have unplanned overtime, with no particular end point, and no warning, as a normal day to day happening.

For the right price, and in return for commensurate compensation and other contractural protections including transport home, yes.

I haven't been a low-paid/unskilled worker since my uni days, so I need to be careful that I don't presume to speak for others who are not in my situation. And I wasn't a parent then and I know how much that changes things.

But from experience I know that there's at least a subset of people in the workforce who would jump at the chance to pick up some good money from doing occasional unplanned overtime.

With the right planning and foresight, I'm sure it could be a win-win situation. The delayed passengers have a nice place to sit and wait, and a skeleton staff in the lounge pick up some extra money.

 

[jb747]

Flight delays and disruptions affect a lot more than just lounge staff. Pilots, cabin crew, ramp staff, ground operations, duty managers and cleaners also stay back to get the job done.

Most of the people you’ve mentioned are already on a 24 rostering system, and in the case of pilots and cabin crew are almost always keen to leave town. Cleaners will be waiting for you to get out of the lounge and are also likely to have restricted hours…which in itself will cause the lounge to be closed at set times.

For the right price, and in return for commensurate compensation and other contractural protections including transport home, yes.

You are joking aren’t you. These people are paid the absolute bare minimum. The airline (well QF) is never going to make it worthwhile, that’s only for management.

With the right planning and foresight, I'm sure it could be a win-win situation. The delayed passengers have a nice place to sit and wait, and a skeleton staff in the lounge pick up some extra money.

And how much are you proposing giving them to make it a “win-win”, noting that the airline doesn’t actually win at all. They don’t care if you aren’t in a lounge. $500 per staff member. $20. At what point do you think you’ll get sufficient staff to remain in the lounge, remembering that you’ll then need to do the same with cleaning staff.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I agree on the staffing issue… you may get some staff willing to stay behind for overtime + taxi home, but there will be others who simply can’t do that… those that have kids for example that need to be home, get some sleep, and be up to do the school run in the morning. Or that have to function for uni.

If the lounge has to close and delayed pax are impacted, it might be an idea however to issue $20 vouchers for use in the terminal… enough to buy a coffee or a drink.

 

[Human]

You are joking aren’t you. These people are paid the absolute bare minimum. The airline (well QF) is never going to make it worthwhile, that’s only for management.

Wow. Well, I don't think you'll get much disgreement if you're asserting that Qantas does not treat its low-paid workers well. Nevertheless, this discussion is not about Qantas but about whether airlines should keep their lounges open, and how it could happen.

And how much are you proposing giving them to make it a “win-win”, noting that the airline doesn’t actually win at all. They don’t care if you aren’t in a lounge. $500 per staff member. $20. At what point do you think you’ll get sufficient staff to remain in the lounge, remembering that you’ll then need to do the same with cleaning staff.

Again going back a few centuries to when I was a low-paid worker, we received double-time-and-a-half for working on public holidays and double-time for working on Sundays. I know the IR landscape has changed since then but as a ballpark I would think that those sorts of rates would be appropriate for late-night last-minute unplanned overtime. And, like me all those years ago, there are staff who would welcome those opportunities to pocket that money.

I'm not sure I totally agree with you when you state that the airline doesn't win at all. Good customer service sees these situations as opportunities -- opportunities to impress customers by responding in ways that cement the customers' loyalty. We've all read plenty of comments and posts on AFF from people who are dyed-in lifelong Qantas (or another airline) loyalists becuase they can remember a time when they were in trouble or inconvenienced and the airline looked after them.

How is this different? The alrline pays a little to look after a customer, and as a result that customer's loyalty is strengthened or even cemented, resulting in many years of revenue for that airline.

How is that not a win for the airline?

 

[kangarooflyer88]

If the lounge has to close and delayed pax are impacted, it might be an idea however to issue $20 vouchers for use in the terminal… enough to buy a coffee or a drink.

That assumes that restaurants and concessions are open during that time. For many airports I have been to (YUL is a particularly notorious example of such) they tend to close early (or perhaps around the time the last flight is scheduled to depart at best) and as a result travellers are left with little to eat. Having a cafe concept like the one I suggested earlier would be nice.

I'm not sure I totally agree with you when you state that the airline doesn't win at all. Good customer service sees these situations as opportunities -- opportunities to impress customers by responding in ways that cement the customers' loyalty. We've all read plenty of comments and posts on AFF from people who are dyed-in lifelong Qantas (or another airline) loyalists becuase they can remember a time when they were in trouble or inconvenienced and the airline looked after them.

How is this different? The alrline pays a little to look after a customer, and as a result that customer's loyalty is strengthened or even cemented, resulting in many years of revenue for that airline.

How is that not a win for the airline?

The problem with your argument is that you cannot quantify it. So naturally when the bean counters look at things to optimize, all they see is a cost of keeping a lounge open for longer than it should be. The other concern is that it's unclear how important loyalty is. Certainly for domestic travel, it doesn't matter a whole lot since QF is the only game in town. Keep in mind too that most of Qantas' profit comes from the lucrative domestic market, not the cut-throat international one. For international travel, where customers could pick and choose who to fly with, then yes, an argument could be made that loyalty matters.

But again, it's unclear whether international lounges handle delays differently. I suppose one key thing about international departures which makes them different from domestic is often you cannot simply exit the secure area and grab a bit to eat land side (or somewhere nearby) - well not without going through emergency exit doors, but that's a story for another day. So in those cases it does matter that you have something to eat whilst you wait.

-RooFlyer88

 

[Seat0B]

So, can I understand from this, that those of you who work would be happy to have unplanned overtime, with no particular end point, and no warning, as a normal day to day happening.

If it was part of the conditions of the job that I took, then yes. It’s not that uncommon. Umpty years ago, when I worked at a McDonald’s, it was explicitly part of the job conditions. It’s part of the conditions for a lot of jobs. Doctors don’t get to clock off mid-surgery because the operation is taking longer than anticipated. IT staff have to work as required when a hack occurs. Bus drivers don’t get to exit the bus at clock off time if their bus is stuck in traffic. Childcare workers have to stay until the last child has been collected, even if this is after hours. The list is extensive. I wouldn’t think aircraft running late is that u usual that it could not be included in the job conditions if the employers chose to do so.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If it was part of the conditions of the job that I took, then yes. It’s not that uncommon. Umpty years ago, when I worked at a McDonald’s, it was explicitly part of the job conditions. It’s part of the conditions for a lot of jobs. Doctors don’t get to clock off mid-surgery because the operation is taking longer than anticipated. IT staff have to work as required when a hack occurs. Bus drivers don’t get to exit the bus at clock off time if their bus is stuck in traffic. Childcare workers have to stay until the last child has been collected, even if this is after hours. The list is extensive. I wouldn’t think aircraft running late is that u usual that it could not be included in the job conditions if the employers chose to do so.

Difference being that most of those jobs would be salaried, compared to causal for lounge workers?

 

[Seat0B]

Difference being that most of those jobs would be salaried, compared to causal for lounge workers?

Not child care workers. Or Maccas staff. And most IT staff these days are contractors. And anyway, I don’t see that it makes a difference. People working longer than normal hours/outside agreed hours usually get paid for their extra efforts either way or get time off in lieu. And both salaried and casual jobs can have conditions - like my long ago Maccas experience. Like others, I was a uni student and dead happy for the extra money. No kids, no responsibilities, no worries. It’s really not that hard - unless employers don’t want to make any effort t all. Maccas certainly cared about customer service at that time and also about hygiene runs on equipment. So if you needed to work back after close (which was often at 1 or 2 am), then that is what you did. Manager could authorise a taxi if needed.

 

[Nank]

I was in Canberra last year travelling on Qantas.Several late evening flights delayed due to problems out of Sydney.I was in the Qantas lounge .They announced the lounge would be closing but we would be moving to the business lounge.Canbera being Canerra there are usually more people in the business lounge that the Q lounge . So about 20 people enjoyed the upgrade for just over an hour.
I think the airlines should keep the lounges open when there are long delays.

I’ve had the same experience. Delayed coming out of CBR by a couple of hours October I think it was last year, and while the Qantas club was closed I was directed to the business lounge where I stayed (though annoyingly with a couple of VERY entitled and agitated business pax who wouldn’t shut up about the delay…..)
They kept food and drinks going until we were called for boarding. Perfect handling from my experience.