Argh! I've joined Velocity! Am I wasting my time?

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Optics

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AnonymousCoward said:
Dalmien76,

There may be several ways that this might impact morale adversely. We have a lot of people who travel (it's a consulting firm), and whilst travel is part of the job, it would be nice if it could be as painless as possible.

DJ planes do not have as much luggage space as QANTAS planes do. Ergo, you need to check in luggage (or run the risk of DJ attendants doing it for you). But you get no priority luggage on DJ - you wait like everyone else does for your luggage both to check it in, and to get it back.

DJ does not serve breakfast on the plane (and what you can buy is pretty ordinary). If you're already getting up at 4:30am to get to some other city, do you really want to get up at 4am to eat a (very) early breakfast at home?
This is made even worse when you are doing same day trips MEL-BNE-MEL. You get no breakfast, hopefully get a quick bite of a sandwich for lunch, then back to the a/p for a 6.30-7.00 flight with no dinner. Not being fed on the flight just makes it a very long and hungry day. Not to mention no " beer and wine is complimentary on all cityflyer flights after 4pm"!!!!!

DJ have made a good move with a FF program and lounges, but if they want to entice me as a business traveller, they need to do something better with the in-flight service.
 

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Optics said:
This is made even worse when you are doing same day trips MEL-BNE-MEL. You get no breakfast, hopefully get a quick bite of a sandwich for lunch, then back to the a/p for a 6.30-7.00 flight with no dinner. Not being fed on the flight just makes it a very long and hungry day. Not to mention no " beer and wine is complimentary on all cityflyer flights after 4pm"!!!!!

DJ have made a good move with a FF program and lounges, but if they want to entice me as a business traveller, they need to do something better with the in-flight service.
I haven't found the QF food service worth the extra money. Generally it is a couple of biscuits and a juice or tea, which is not a meal. The last hot meal I had in Y was aweful. The food in J domestic is good and even better in J international.

On DJ I have not tried any meals on short sectors (such as SYD-MEL) but on SYD-PER flights they have some very nice food, e.g. a relatively healthy and tasty chicken wrap and a hot beef & mash dish, both far better than anything QF has served me in Y in the past few years.

I agree about the breakfast comment, and always try to arrive at the terminal in time to partake at the lounge.
 

Optics

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Yada Yada said:
I haven't found the QF food service worth the extra money. Generally it is a couple of biscuits and a juice or tea, which is not a meal. The last hot meal I had in Y was aweful. The food in J domestic is good and even better in J international.

On DJ I have not tried any meals on short sectors (such as SYD-MEL) but on SYD-PER flights they have some very nice food, e.g. a relatively healthy and tasty chicken wrap and a hot beef & mash dish, both far better than anything QF has served me in Y in the past few years.

I agree about the breakfast comment, and always try to arrive at the terminal in time to partake at the lounge.
You are right of course, the food on QF is pretty well abysmal. But it is still better than nothing, and the free drinks after 4pm, while not great wine, help to settle me at the end of a long day. But it is mainly the access to the QP that is the benefit of flying QF on these occasions, allowing breakfast and evening snack (can't be called food any more :( ). I have not flown DJ since the lounges have been introduced, and that would make a big difference.

Another issue with DJ is the no IFE.

But I should try them again now they have improved sonewhat, and reassess the experience.
 

Optics

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SeatBackForward said:
So essentially, it comes down to who gives away the beer(wine) :D
That sounds terrible doesn't it?:oops: Guilty as charged.
 

SeatBackForward

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Optics said:
That sounds terrible doesn't it?:oops: Guilty as charged.

LOL


There there..if it makes you feel any better, you're not actually getting it for free, you've already paid for it somehow. Just hope that the $300+ per year gets you at least the equivalent of six cases of beer...
 

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Yada Yada said:
You're right. They're better at Virgin Blue. :p

Virgin definitely wins on the cabin crew friendliness and cabin crew tidiness.:mrgreen:
 

Commuter

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Optics said:
You are right of course, the food on QF is pretty well abysmal. But it is still better than nothing...

I admit that some of the food was worse than nothing :D

Another issue with DJ is the no IFE.

But better without than the puke-a-thon they had of spinning people around to see if they puke (?) in MythBuster on QF :D


P.S. Why am I batting for Virgin when I'm not a big Virgin fan?
 

jazzamcc

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Reading through this thread, some people's responses amaze me!! I don't travel for work, but do know that our policy is cheapest fare for the day required. I'm in the position where I do see the invoices for travel, and it amazes me how much money our company spends on travel, despite a cutback on travel. We have different business units, which are responsible for travel for that particular business unit. Of the 6 BU'S, only 3 adhere to our travel policy of cheapest available.
When I saw that our 'President' (CEO), was booked on a DJ flight, I thought, good on them. If it is good enough for our 'President', then it is good enough for ALL of our staff. I've heard numerous staff state that they want to fly Qantas just to earn points. Typical selfish people, just thinking of themselves.
On another note, I have found this in the terms and conditions of the Velocity program:

1.6 Points are not earned for travel on travel under certain Government or corporate travel arrangements.

Does this mean you can't earn points on corporate travel, or am I misreading the conditions??:oops:
 

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jazzamcc said:
1.6 Points are not earned for travel on travel under certain Government or corporate travel arrangements.

Does this mean you can't earn points on corporate travel, or am I misreading the conditions??:oops:

The key, I believe, is certain.
 

JohnK

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Some interesting stories on company policy regarding travel.

I don't travel interstate or overseas with currect job but I did previously and may do so again in the future.

I have but one small rule that overrides company policy. I don't ask for business class travel but if you want me to travel then I decide who I travel with and how I get there. You want to force me to travel with a specific airline I don't want to travel with, e.g Virgin or Jetstar, then I am unavailable for travel. Very simple rule.
 
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jakeseven7

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Dalmien76 said:
Naive? In what way? His company has a right to choose who it decides to use when it comes to airlines. If anyone is naive its the guy that decided he knew it would irritate and demotivate staff if they travelled DJ. Isn't that a tad presumptious to make that assumption?


Nope, for many reasons, alot already touched upon in previous posts.

Look, regardless of what may be the truth at this point in time, some people still have the opinion that Vermin is the poor mans airline and the media does a good job of reinforcing this (RE the fuss made over Keith Urbans parents flying budget airline DJ to the wedding - isn't that bizarre that a multi millionares parents are forced to fly Virgin was the angle they took)

When we moved to best fare of the day for 18 months (and people percieved this to mean we would all be forced to fly DJ most of the time - which in actual fact was untrue thank god) there were alot of people pissed off and irritated that they didnt get the points, status and comfort of qf club and the percieved higher service of QF. Plus as I mentioned before, alot of people still think of Vermin as a budget airline, and for some business people it is a bit of an ego knock having to fly them.
 

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Also, training and experience standards of the flight deck crew might just be different...
 

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jakeseven7 said:
Plus as I mentioned before, alot of people still think of Vermin as a budget airline, and for some business people it is a bit of an ego knock having to fly them.
Yes, I think this is probably a big factor. It's a bit elitist, but there you have it.

Commuter said:
Also, training and experience standards of the flight deck crew might just be different...
I'm not sure there is any difference here. There are a lot of ex-AN pilots with many years of experience flying for DJ, and I assume that training would be comparable given CASA requirements apply to all operators.
 

jakeseven7

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Yada Yada said:
Yes, I think this is probably a big factor. It's a bit elitist, but there you have it.


Its a huge factor... For example, one of our subsidarys is in a low margin industry and not doing that well - they strictly enforce a low fare of the day and fly special fares as well, so end up on DJ and JQ alot more. They hate it, absolutely hate it, having to fly 'budget airlines' really embarrases alot of people because it has connations that your compay is too tight or not making enough money or you are not senior enough to fly a 'decent' airline.

No offence to those who do have to fly DJ/JQ for work and please note my 'quotation marks' I'm simply relaying what the general feeling is that I observe in our industry.

As you say - there you have it!
 

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JohnK said:
Some interesting stories on company policy regarding travel.

I don't travel interstate or overseas with currect job but I did previously and may do so again in the future.

I have but one small rule that overrides company policy. I don't ask for business class travel but if you want me to travel then I decide who I travel with and how I get there. You want to force me to travel with a specific airline I don't want to travel with, e.g Virgin or Jetstar, then I am unavailable for travel. Very simple rule.

At a lot of places you would be out of a job. Company policy rules and refusal to travel or comply as part of your job means bye bye.
 

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jazzamcc said:
Does this mean you can't earn points on corporate travel, or am I misreading the conditions??:oops:

That is there to cover instances where the employer has insisted no points to try to get the best deal from the airline (or to remove an incentive for employees to manipulate travel arrangements).
 

bravoecho1

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What sealed DJ's fate with me was on a business trip from BNE-CNS (QF was full) a colleague and myself were in the middle of a work discussion and the plane started singing happy birthday to a passenger prompted by a crew member on the PA. We continued our talk and were shocked when the crew member started to joke about the "suits" refusing to sing on the PA. Never have I been more embarrassed on a plane and have since limited my DJ flights to a "DJ or the Greyhound" policy.

Regarding DJ having the youngest fleet, those with an aviation background and/or contacts in the company know that this is a very big problem for them right now. It is easy to start an airline with new planes as their mantenance requirements are low, but as the cycles build up they become quite expensive and DJ are starting to feel the pain. One of the main reasons for DJ's sudden cancellation/re-routing policy is that they don't have the engineering capacity to keep their aircraft in the air, so they are always "robbing Peter to pay Paul". This is especially true with Pacific Blue. These comments come from people within the company that I know very well and trust.
 

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bravoecho1 said:
What sealed DJ's fate with me was on a business trip from BNE-CNS (QF was full) a colleague and myself were in the middle of a work discussion and the plane started singing happy birthday to a passenger prompted by a crew member on the PA. We continued our talk and were shocked when the crew member started to joke about the "suits" refusing to sing on the PA. Never have I been more embarrassed on a plane and have since limited my DJ flights to a "DJ or the Greyhound" policy.
bravoecho1 - how long ago did this happen? I have never seen anything like this happen myself, but have observed that the sense of humour in cabin announcements has been toned down to zero in the past year.

bravoecho1 said:
Regarding DJ having the youngest fleet, those with an aviation background and/or contacts in the company know that this is a very big problem for them right now. It is easy to start an airline with new planes as their mantenance requirements are low, but as the cycles build up they become quite expensive and DJ are starting to feel the pain. One of the main reasons for DJ's sudden cancellation/re-routing policy is that they don't have the engineering capacity to keep their aircraft in the air, so they are always "robbing Peter to pay Paul". This is especially true with Pacific Blue. These comments come from people within the company that I know very well and trust.
I'm guessing that the management at Virgin Blue was well prepared for the maintenance requirements of their fleet as it ages and had it planned into their budget forecasts. Their on-time performance proves that any cancellations or delays are minimal.

I have experienced less cancellations and re-routing of DJ flights than I have with QF. Given that QF's fleet is significantly older it is more likely to happen to them and is likely to be more disruptive when they use a different plane with different capacity and config.
 

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Yada Yada said:
I have experienced less cancellations and re-routing of DJ flights than I have with QF. Given that QF's fleet is significantly older it is more likely to happen to them and is likely to be more disruptive when they use a different plane with different capacity and config.
Much of QF's domestic fleet is similarly aged to DJ's. All the 737-800's (38 aircraft) have all arrived in the last 5 years. These aircraft form the basis of the QF fleet competing with DJ on the domestic routes. Similarly the A330-200s currently used by QF domestic are reasonably new.

QF's 767's and 737-400s are significantly older than the 737NG fleets of both QF and DJ. But given QF's long experience with these aircraft I don't see that their maintenance is going to make them any more or less likely to be disruptive to airline schedules.

In my view, fleet age is not a significant factor to use for choosing one airline over the other. However, there are some factors that are associated with age that may play a part, including cabin condition, comfort and IFE facilities.
 
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