ANZ Cancelling or Suspending Points

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lovetravellingoz said:
Anyone have the wording for this particular clause?
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Ok found it.

Using the credit card account

(3) How you can use the credit card account
(a) The credit card account must be used wholly and exclusively for your personal, domestic or household use

Unfortunately that seems to be pretty clear cut.

Many people do of course put through business spend on private cards, but in your case they have examined the spend.
 
This sort of thing sends shivers down my spine. First we had Citi behaving badly, now ANZ. It seems like none of the banks can now be trusted as a warehouse for points.

Stuff it, I'm moving all mine. Let's see how these mongrels go trying to claw them back out of a frequent flyer account.
 
lovetravellingoz said:
Ok found it.

Using the credit card account

(3) How you can use the credit card account
(a) The credit card account must be used wholly and exclusively for your personal, domestic or household use

Unfortunately that seems to be pretty clear cut.

Many people do of course put through business spend on private cards, but in your case they have examined the spend.
Click to expand...

The interesting part of this is who has the onus of proof. Does the bank have the onus of proving that it was business expenditure, or is it the card holder who has to prove that it wasn't business expenditure / it was all personal?

If the first one, then raising a complaint to the ombudsman would be interesting as it would rely on the bank coming with a strong case. I suppose they will start by saying that the cash amounts being put through the card represent an extremely unlikely case of personal expenditure, though that - in and of itself - isn't sufficient proof. The pattern of merchant names might suggest something that the bank used as its basis for terminating the OP's account.

Of course, one might adopt the view that the bank can do whatever it wants in its reasonable determination, as its rules allow it to do. To what extent they can exercise their "free wielding" discretion may be a point of contention in law, but then you'd have to find under what legal grounds has the bank overstepped the mark.

Reminds me of the bloke who churned his NAB credit card with 1c transactions before the bank caught up with him. Lucky for him, NAB simply told him that he wouldn't get diddly for any transactions after they caught on, but as for those which he already got points for, they let him have them. Probably more difficult for NAB in this case because it was a Qantas credit card, viz. direct sweep, which means any points already swept to Qantas are very difficult for the bank to claw back.

And here's an interesting AusBT article from a few years ago: The world's five weirdest tricks to earn frequent flyer points - Australian Business Traveller
 
asg29e said:
This sort of thing sends shivers down my spine. First we had Citi behaving badly, now ANZ. It seems like none of the banks can now be trusted as a warehouse for points.

Stuff it, I'm moving all mine. Let's see how these mongrels go trying to claw them back out of a frequent flyer account.
Click to expand...

Of course none of them can be fully trusted as a points warehouse. Been kind of like that since the dawn of time.

American Express might be the sole exception in this regard (do they count as a bank?), but I wouldn't rest on my laurels too much.

Naturally, though, we make a bit of a distinction in cases. In the Citibank case, the bank acted badly first and consumer protection power to a degree managed to cause a reversal. In this case, without knowing exactly the OP's case, it seems the OP wronged first. Who knows - maybe the OP can raise a case and get some or all of their points back. The Citibank turnabout certainly didn't come without some legal or semi-legal threats.
 
Terms like "disgraceful" and "mongrels" seem a tad on the hyperbole side of things given that people have either not understood the T&Cs or deliberately ignored them.
 
incumbent said:
Terms like "disgraceful" and "mongrels" seem a tad on the hyperbole side of things given that people have either not understood the T&Cs or deliberately ignored them.
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Most of the accusations are coming from a moral or ethical point of view.

A bit like heckling the inspector giving you a parking ticket and calling them a b****** / b****.
 
incumbent said:
What do you mean by that? That somehow "big corporations" deserve what they get?
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There are certainly many who would make that case. I don't subscribe to the idea, but it is foolish to believe it isn't there.

I've seen this argument more in America than here, to be sure.
 
I think you're using the words "moral" and "ethical" in somewhat unorthodox fashion, then.
 
Don't know how safe points are after they've been transferred.

About 10 years ago, Westpac accidentally transfer basically all earth card holders 25000 Qantas points. They managed to get them all back without a word from Qantas to the account holder
 
JQ29 said:
ANZ called and replied with offical letter. Contravene 3.(a) of ANZ card T&Cs and that they have the right to sole discretion to cancel the points. Guy from ANZ unapologetic and quite arrogant. Like crime commitment yet they have benefit from merchant fees! ... Warning to all. Beware Beware Beware....
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Your only hope is a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman!
 
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kpc said:
Your only hope is a complaint to ths Financial Ombudsman!
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Not much hope at all, I would say, presuming that the OP has indeed breached the T&Cs by putting a huge amount of business expenditure on his personal card!

Really no-one to blame but himself. Just unlucky he got caught ........
 
incumbent said:
Terms like "disgraceful" and "mongrels" seem a tad on the hyperbole side of things given that people have either not understood the T&Cs or deliberately ignored them.
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Many on this forum including myself have exploited T&C 's to our advantage.

ie look at the current Bankwest thread, or the Citibank thread where Citibank tried to alter the T&C without notice.


Indeed once when Amex tried to deny me 2.9 million MR points I put the onus on them in a 16 page submission to show where and how I had breeched their T&C. They wrote to me advising that I had had "suspicious spend". The promo itself had scant T&C but what caught out many in the same promo from gaining the points that they had earnt was the T&C of MR Program itself. I had read those during the life of the promo and took pains to make sure that I did not breach them as well as the promos almost non-existant T&C, despite what at first glance looked to be easy ways to earn vast amounts of points if one only looked at the promo.

So one cannot really complain when the bank/airline enforces the T&C. It cuts both ways. One may of course still take the punt.....

But yes it would hurt like hell to lose that many points.


And as I am sure that there are many on this forum who have breeched the same T&C (or similar on other cards) as the OP I would strongly suspect that there will be a rush of point transfers.
 
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I wonder if ANZ are anticipating some 'accidental' overpayments this month
 
Even if they don't claw back transferred miles they still 'could' give you a negative miles balance.

Not sure what happens if you cancel with a large negative balance but I cancelled my HSBC card in points deficit last year after a flight refund
 
Ombudsman is definitely worth a go. The first step is an escalation within ANZ to somebody with a bit more power and authority. Good chance you'll get the points back, but never get anymore
 
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