AMEX rejection

[Www]

I was also rejected recently, but for Amex Explorer. It would have been my third time holding the card and getting the sign up bonus. Each time held the card for just under 1 year and waited around 2 years between closing and reapplying.
Interestingly, I wasn’t asked for any payslips or anything. Applied at around 11pm on a Sunday night. Received a letter in the mail dated the night I applied, so mine was very much a case of computer said no.
Credit score, income are good. Other liabilities low (and better than previous times I applied for the same card and was approved). So can only assume rejection was based on either holding and cancelling the same card previously and/or another credit card application too close in time (I had another application only a few weeks prior - I usually wait a few months between applications but in this case I didn’t).

 

[DC3]

.. I pay everything on-time - always have ..

You may not be the sort of customer that they seek

 

[mel-world]

You may not be the sort of customer that they seek

That's exactly what I surmised as well. I guess I'll just have to be happy operating with no debt.

 

[NoName]

Also declined for the Platinum Charge the other day with the only explanation being “based wholly or partly on information in your credit file”. Would be interested to clarify this with them and potentially clarify any data if incorrect. Is the consensus that it’s a waste of time? Has anyone been successful in having them reconsider the rejection?

 

[andyrb]

Is the consensus that it’s a waste of time?

Yes.

If you've been declined, you've been declined. They're not going to tell you the exact reason why you've been declined, nor are they likely to reverse that decision.

 

[grandir]

I have a friend who works in a bank's CC approval arm and from what she tells me, it's a myriad of factors but one interesting point she mentioned that a lot of people dont seem to take into account when trying to explain why they have been rejected for credit is average age of credit accounts, which can all be gleamed from a hard credit inquiry by the lender.

This is one way that credit card churning can negatively impact the willingness of lenders like Amex esp if you have a habit of cancelling immediately after you receive the bonus points in a sign up offer. So yes, while your credit score may be exceptional, having a low average age of credit accounts will straight away tell lenders that you're a churner and that you won't make ongoing profit for them.

This is especially pertinent for products like the Amex Plat since it's a charge card so Amex literally depends on you continously using the card for years to come in order to make money off you. So if they think that you're going to cancel within 3 months and likely demand a full/pro-rata refund of the annual fee, they'll have very little incentive to offer you a product.

This is why I've kept my first every CC open sitting in my drawer since I was in my early 20s since it's $0 AF so it helps build my credit score because every month I've "repaid" my entire balance, and it inflates my average age of credit limit, and I've never had any issues getting approval for new CCs I sign up for. I suppose another mechanism you could do to help your "profitability" in the eyes of Amex is instead of immediately cancelling your CC after the sign up, request a product transfer and transfer your card to one of the bank's $0 AF cards and keep that open for the remainder of the year before cancelling.

 

[levelnine]

likely demand a full/pro-rata refund of the annual fee

But Amex don't offer full or even pro-rata refunds of annual fees upon card cancellation.

 

[N0mad]

i just applied and my application is being reviewed, how long did it take most people to find out and was it email or snail mail?

Last Amex was maybe over 2 years, so long it's dropped off my credit report anyway. Churned maybe 2 cards last year and an additional card still open.

 

[MooTime]

i just applied and my application is being reviewed, how long did it take most people to find out and was it email or snail mail?

Last Amex was maybe over 2 years, so long it's dropped off my credit report anyway. Churned maybe 2 cards last year and an additional card still open.

I believe cards stay on your credit report upto 7 years. Sure do on my credit report.

But Amex don't offer full or even pro-rata refunds of annual fees upon card cancellation.

I think the poster was referring to cc in general, it although did mention AMEX.

I have a friend who works in a bank's CC approval arm and from what she tells me, it's a myriad of factors but one interesting point she mentioned that a lot of people dont seem to take into account when trying to explain why they have been rejected for credit is average age of credit accounts, which can all be gleamed from a hard credit inquiry by the lender.

This is one way that credit card churning can negatively impact the willingness of lenders like Amex esp if you have a habit of cancelling immediately after you receive the bonus points in a sign up offer. So yes, while your credit score may be exceptional, having a low average age of credit accounts will straight away tell lenders that you're a churner and that you won't make ongoing profit for them.

This is especially pertinent for products like the Amex Plat since it's a charge card so Amex literally depends on you continously using the card for years to come in order to make money off you. So if they think that you're going to cancel within 3 months and likely demand a full/pro-rata refund of the annual fee, they'll have very little incentive to offer you a product.

This is why I've kept my first every CC open sitting in my drawer since I was in my early 20s since it's $0 AF so it helps build my credit score because every month I've "repaid" my entire balance, and it inflates my average age of credit limit, and I've never had any issues getting approval for new CCs I sign up for. I suppose another mechanism you could do to help your "profitability" in the eyes of Amex is instead of immediately cancelling your CC after the sign up, request a product transfer and transfer your card to one of the bank's $0 AF cards and keep that open for the remainder of the year before cancelling.

Great point about average age of open cc's.
Although if they look at your credit history and see you churn 2 cc's a year, but keep 1 open for decades, I doubt they'd be that silly to think you card average is high and not see thru the churning aspect and that you won't be profitable for the company.

I've started to keep my cards open for a maybe 6-11 months before cancelling, not right after bonus dropped like was fine few years ago. Still get thru 4 per year with careful planning.

 

[DC3]

I think the poster was referring to cc in general, it although did mention AMEX.

 

[N0mad]

I believe cards stay on your credit report upto 7 years. Sure do on my credit report.

Ahh was looking in my clear score app and didn't come up. Either way been about 2 years.

Just thinking as well, the Plat card only asked me for my salary and did not ask about rental income. Was i supposed to include it as part of Salary even though it's different income?

 

[bussyboy]

Bit unfair for a financial institution to reject an application due to their business model and negatively impact an applicants credit file

 

[andyrb]

Bit unfair for a financial institution to reject an application due to their business model and negatively impact an applicants credit file

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExc3kxMHppMjN3eGg5OXNscTAzdGc2cm82ZjJjcmNxa2YwYXB0Y3FtMiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/CDJo4EgHwbaPS/giphy.gif

 

[0x012fd0aa]

Bit unfair for a financial institution to reject an application due to their business model and negatively impact an applicants credit file

isn't the impact coming when you made the application and give them access to your credit file?

 

[andye]

The hit to your credit score is at application not rejection (and its not like insurance where you are asked to declare rejections).
Although in theory a lender could correlate applications with open cards on suspicion of a rejection, I highly doubt they'd bother
My understanding is that unlike the US (where the number is really important), Australian credit card providers take very little notice of the raw score. They are interested in defaults obviously but seem to make most of their decisions on ability to service based on income, assets and owings as per their own application form

 

[N0mad]

They are interested in defaults obviously but seem to make most of their decisions on ability to service based on income, assets and owings as per their own application form

problem is, Amex don't actually query this like other banks. Wasn't asked for all my income or expenses or other credit etc.

I more than meet the salary requirements but debt would look high without including rental income which they don't ask for either.

i guess i'll wait to see if rejected and then call to see if advising of rental income would make a difference.

 

[albyd]

I think that short of identifying potential churners, with a charge card, ex have some control over their credit risk by declining individual charges so you prepay them to Amex first whereas with a CC, they’re on the hook for that limit without that discretion to decline individual charges which churning aside is why historically, it’s been much easier to qualify for a Charge card than a CC.

 

[nthd_nthd]

I also got rejection for Explorer after over 24 months closing previous card (Nov 2023), then applied for a business Amex right after rejection and got approved instantly.

However, now I am drooling over the new offers but dont know what to do as my recent Business card exclude me for any offer (Nov 2023).

 

[NoName]

I also got rejection for Explorer after over 24 months closing previous card (Nov 2023), then applied for a business Amex right after rejection and got approved instantly.

However, now I am drooling over the new offers but dont know what to do as my recent Business card exclude me for any offer (Nov 2023).

Which business card did you get? What information did they ask for in the application process? What documentation?

 

[nthd_nthd]

Which business card did you get? What information did they ask for in the application process? What documentation?

Business Explorer, ABN required, entered ABN number, asked how long the business was (pretty new), asked for turnaround (75K), no proof/document required. Open another for a family member and didnt get instant approval but received a phone call and an email asked for proof of address (utilities bill) then got approved few days later also.