AMEX not accepted or surcharge

[simongr]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

I find in Melbourne that generally people either take AMEX or they don't.

I think that you will find that applies to every merchant/hotelier/restaurant in the world

Or did you mean they either take it with no surcharge or don't take it at all?

 

[Nutcase]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

So does anyone know for sure what the legality of this is?

Visa and Mastercard in days gone by would have in their merchant agreement that surcharging was a no-no. Remember the time around the the 2000 Olympics in Sydney and you couldnt use Visa in a cab? Visa dug their heels in and eventually capitulated to Cabcharge.

Amex also used to insist on no surcharge, but have also relented.

The RBA reforms were designed with the cash consumer in mind so that they weren't subsidising card customers and rewards programs. This also handed amex a huge competitive advantage through the reforms of interchange. Personally I dont think this has worked.

Short version - Merchants can do anything that they want with surcharging. Many of them are profiting from the surcharge as it doesnt necessarily reflect the cost to them.

 

[rhjames]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

I guess I'll never use a card if there is a surcharge. I know I get FF points with Amex, but can't help thinking that I pay for it somehow. If Amex charges shops etc a higher commission, it seems to me that eventually it will come out of my pocket, so I'll give preference to Visa.

PS I know we've already thrashed all this out previously in this thread.

 

[MelUser]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

Or did you mean they either take it with no surcharge or don't take it at all?

Yes, sorry - that's what I meant. I think it looks a bit tacky if a shop asks you for 3% more. It's far easier for them to say: "Sorry we don't take AMEX, do you have another credit card?"

 

[Nutcase]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

I guess I'll never use a card if there is a surcharge. I know I get FF points with Amex, but can't help thinking that I pay for it somehow. If Amex charges shops etc a higher commission, it seems to me that eventually it will come out of my pocket, so I'll give preference to Visa.

PS I know we've already thrashed all this out previously in this thread.

Youre right - on both counts - We have thrashed this one out and yes you do pay for it somehow. In my case, Ive done the sums and since I no longer travel as much for work as I used to, the whole AMEX/QANTAS gig is almost up. Sure, I can generate 100,000 points fairly easily, but I have paid for them and my ability to use them when and where I want them is severely limited. Im no longer as loyal to qantas as I used to be. By way of example: I want to go to the New York and a Business class fare with Qantas was in excess of $10k. Asiana to New York was around $5500.Sure it takes a few hours longer and goes via Korea but realistically who cares? Doesnt make sense to me any more.

 

[oz_mark]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

So does anyone know for sure what the legality of this is?

Quite legal thanks to the RBA, due to the consumer benefits that it allows. The RBA (foolishly) believed that if they allowed surcharges, then the cash price would drop. Mastercard has made the point overseas that there is absolutely no evidence from Australia that cash prices reduced.

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

. Mastercard has made the point overseas that there is absolutely no evidence from Australia that cash prices reduced.

Coming from a company that has a vested interest in trying to stop this being permitted elsewhere. Hardly a disinterested party are they?

Dave

 

[oz_mark]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

Coming from a company that has a vested interest in trying to stop this being permitted elsewhere. Hardly a disinterested party are they?

Dave

While they are not disinterested, the point they were making is as far as I know quite accurate. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

 

[one9]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

While they are not disinterested, the point they were making is as far as I know quite accurate. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

The point in itself seems misleading - I would not expect cash prices to drop, BUT I would expect that future price increases would not take into account the lower cost of doing business.

 

[oz_mark]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

The point in itself seems misleading - I would not expect cash prices to drop, BUT I would expect that future price increases would not take into account the lower cost of doing business.

I doubt you will find a single scrap of evidence to support that expectation either. Are, for example, the surcharging service stations even 0.1c below the others on average. I think not, in Perth Caltex are often the ones leading the charge to increase prices.

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

While they are not disinterested, the point they were making is as far as I know quite accurate. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Well, when it comes to airline bookings for example, it is quite demonstrable in the UK imo. When making bookings by credit cards quite a few places surcharge credit cards whilst cash/debit card/cheque rates attract no surcharge.

Those prepared to pay by debit card get a lower price than those wanting to accrue debt

Better that those using debt cards pay the extra costs associated with debt cards rather than all being saddled with it

Obviously (to me) the debt card companies dislike the idea that companies may pass the additional costs along to customers since , heaven forbid, people might not use credit and so unsurprisingly (imo) manage to create a report that supports their desires

Dave

 

[one9]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

The point in itself seems misleading - I would not expect cash prices to drop, BUT I would expect that future price increases would not take into account the lower cost of doing business.

I just re-read my post and it was meant to say:

The point in itself seems misleading - I would not expect cash prices to drop, BUT I would expect that future price increases would take into account the lower cost of doing business.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

I doubt you will find a single scrap of evidence to support that expectation either. Are, for example, the surcharging service stations even 0.1c below the others on average. I think not, in Perth Caltex are often the ones leading the charge to increase prices.

Well, without building a time machine and/or doing a double blind scientific experiment, we'll never know for certain what exactly is happening, compared to what would have happened if the reforms were not enacted.

That said, in most competitive markets, competition keeps prices down. Prices don't rise as quickly because retailers see that they are still surviving due to the extra cash the surcharge brings in.

Those places that don't have surcharges - like hotels or the more expensive retailers or mass merchants - either have large markups already, can't surcharge due to competitive pressure, or do such a huge volume of transactions (e.g. the Coles/Woolworths of the world) that they have low fees and save some money by not handling cash. Petrol stations are a pretty ruthless game - I imagine that margins are pretty razor thin as it is.

 

[Mal]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

The Rydges Hotel chain now charge a surcharge for Australian hotels:

"Payments by credit card will incur a transaction fee reflecting bank charges incurred by Rydges for card payments for Australian Hotels only. Current fees are 1.5% of the transaction total for Visa and MasterCard, and 3.5% of the transaction total for Diners, American Express and JCB Card. Fees are subject to change, and applicable fees will be confirmed on check-in."

3.5% is pretty steep - especially for a hotel where their competitors don't currently charge.

 

[oz_mark]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

3.5% is pretty steep - especially for a hotel where their competitors don't currently charge.

Certainly quite steep, and on the higher end of what my experience with surcharges elsewhere has been

 

[drron]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

I had a new experience in Vietnam.I stayed at 2 Accor hotels-La Residence in Hue and the Sofitel Metropole in Hanoi.Although they said they accepted Diners when it came to using it-"the line is broke,do you have another card?".Funny that other establishments didnt have the same problem and the excuse was identical in both hotels.

 

[NM]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

I had a new experience in Vietnam.I stayed at 2 Accor hotels-La Residence in Hue and the Sofitel Metropole in Hanoi.Although they said they accepted Diners when it came to using it-"the line is broke,do you have another card?".Funny that other establishments didnt have the same problem and the excuse was identical in both hotels.

That sounds like a scam to me. In my experience, POS terminals connect to the bank that provides the credit card processing facilities for that establishment. Then its the bank that routes the transaction to the specific card vendor. It would be very unusual for there to be an extended connection outage from a bank to a credit card merchant. Such an outage would be treated as a "severity 1" outage and reinstated very quickly or there would be severe service penalties to apply.

I would insist that they at least try my Diners Club card.

 

[Chicken]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

My sister told me State Transit Authority (NSW) and CityRail do not accept AmEx anymore. Anyone can confirm?

Current fees are 1.5% of the transaction total for Visa and MasterCard, and 3.5% of the transaction total for Diners, American Express and JCB Card.

They are trying to make an extra few bucks for sure. There is no way their merchant agreement with Visa / MC would be 1.5%, even if it is for platinum or commercial cards.

And I also do not believe they pay AmEx 3.5%, if they actually call AmEx to negotiate.

Although they said they accepted Diners when it came to using it-"the line is broke,do you have another card?"

If phone line for EFTPOS is cut, EFTPOS would simply not work at all, and they will need to call for telephone authorization. If the line is working, then EFTPOS would work.

Plain lie.

 

[NM]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

Tonight I have found a first for my experience. A restaurant that both promotes and accepts Diners Club and does not accept Amex! Had to resort to using my Visa since I didn't have enough local currency in cash.

 

[ANDREWCX]

Re: AMEX not accepted or surchage

Forget AmEx. The French don't even like MasterCard. I learnt this last month, going there first time.

When I was at the metro station, tried using my MasterCard at automatic ticket machine, just won't work. So I went to the counter. I asked her if I could pay by card. She told me yes. Gave her my AmEx, and she said Visa. So I thought, OK, gave her my Earth+ MasterCard, since there is no commission on this WBC Earth+. She said no again. I was confused. So I asked again in case she was not good with English, and she said I could pay by plastic. So I repeated "No MasterCard?" She said "No, Visa". Now this is starting to sink in, so I shown her my Citibank Visa card, she said yes, but I need to use automatic ticket machines because she does not have EFTPOS at counter.

Guess what? My Citibank free for life Visa with 3.4% commission worked!

So I went to another restaurant, again, no AmEx, no MasterCard, only Visa.

Mastercard is not accepted in Zimbabwe at all - only Visa, Amex & Diners. Of course Zimbabwe is a world unto itself but still another case of Visa and Mastercard acceptance being different.

Travel guide for Zimbabwe | Tourist Information