Amazing Race Style Trip for Wedding including Hens/Bucks

[Denali]

To be honest, I would be spending the next year or so working on your relationship with your fiancé and how you two plan on dealing with his toxic family as a unit going forward.

Its perfectly OK to cut out toxic people from your life, so don't be afraid to be the bad guy in not inviting coughholes to your wedding. Because down the track, you might have kids and they will still be coughholes but then you'll be teaching your kids that their ****ty behaviours are ok because its grandma so suck it up. That's not fair to you or your new family unit. You seem to come from a supportive healthy family so I don't think you really realise how messed up crazy families can be.

Of course, this has nothing to do with travel but marriage can be difficult enough to last these days without having to deal with people that are actively making your life/marriage difficult.

Personally, when I read a wedding during the Vivid festival, I thought wow. Now that's a wedding I would like to go to.

 

[Pushka]

Goodness Anna, what a wonderful post.

 

[shellthom]

This sounds like a fantastic idea for a holiday with friends who are totally up for it.

For a wedding, not so much. People feel obliged to go to weddings. Forcing them to do all sorts of extra stuff around the wedding isn't really fair, especially when it is expensive.

Also, because I am old and have a lot more life experience and people generally pay hundreds of dollars for my advice, I am going to say this - concentrate on making the marriage work. The wedding day is just one day in a very long time. It is like 0.00001% of the marriage. It is not even the most important day of your marriage. The most important day of your marriage will be the day when everything has gone wrong and you really really feel like it just can't work any more and you want to walk out but somehow you manage to make it stick together for one more day. Then the days keep passing and suddenly you realise the problems have disappeared and you are fine together again, and you weathered the storm together. Just get through the wedding day however you decide to celebrate it, but make your focus the life-long commitment of the marriage. Not just one day of it.

That is a good point, people feeling more obliged to do something because its a wedding.
We were thinking of initial wording along the lines of "we will elope but you can come, it just costs $xx_ to join the fun". It might take that pressure off?

So far we have been together for 7 years and known each other 8. We are best friends, and no secrets (well he does but nothing I don't know about anyway) we talk about everything. We do argue, mostly when someone is hungry, needs to do a poo or even needs a nap, I can't say it will last forever but I can't see why it wouldn't. It is what we both want. I don't want kids and he is unsure, we talk about our goals which are generally travel or relationship (we don't have any hobbies in common so we have a goal to find one, so far we just found more things one of us likes to do that the other doesn't haha). My parents have been married for 33 almost 34 years (my mum is 51) and known each other a couple more, so together forever is my intention. My partners parents have been married and known each other for 33 years, they are both 65, so my partner also wants forever. Its all we have both known. Even though we weren't church going families, one marriage is our belief.
I do know a lot of people who separated after 2-3 years, some were together a long time before others not so long. My cousin is going through it now, I just don't see much being worse than what we have already been through. Nothing bad has really happened in his family/friends lives though (I have had a lot of people die/get serious illnesses in the last 8 years, his mostly estranged grandma died this year and nothing else bad so he might be different when someone goes wrong on his side but I can't predict that and I'm supportive) so I would hope that wouldn't be our downfall.

 

[medhead]

Having experienced my cousin's wedding where the cousin in law got her way and totally ignored her MiL, I would advise caution. In my cousin's case his wife wanted a coughtail party, standing up, no tables or chairs finger foods in boxes. Not a traditional reception is fair enough. But she (almost) totally ignored her MiL'd advice that there were a number of older people attending, including frail grandparents. So a good idea for a wedding reception where everyone is young. In the end a couple of tables were set up, thereby killing the coughtail party idea. Also bad was the delivery of the dinner boxes was stupidly late, as in here's the food, now get out. Not good for diabetic frail octogenarians.

Anyway the point of my story is it sounds like you need to achieve a balance. 1) You should at least listen to the MiLs advice and consider. It might save you from the types of issues mentioned. But 2) you need to put her in her place. As in you need to establish a relationship and standing based on mutually respect. (Very difficult).

I think on the second point you'll have more success by involving her with the planning and listening but making your own decisions. By doing something like suggested you then own that entirely, opening yourself to constant complaints in the future. Involving her also creates the chance for her to develop some respect for you, also plays into her desire to have a daughter. But then you know her way better than me.

Anyway, my cousin did have a good/enjoyable wedding. Just a couple of minor points that the MiL had predicted and would have addressed.

I thought traditionally the parents of the bride paid for weddings. So not sure how your MiL could have daughters and not pay for the wedding.

 

[shellthom]

To be honest, I would be spending the next year or so working on your relationship with your fiancé and how you two plan on dealing with his toxic family as a unit going forward.

Its perfectly OK to cut out toxic people from your life, so don't be afraid to be the bad guy in not inviting coughholes to your wedding. Because down the track, you might have kids and they will still be coughholes but then you'll be teaching your kids that their ****ty behaviours are ok because its grandma so suck it up. That's not fair to you or your new family unit. You seem to come from a supportive healthy family so I don't think you really realise how messed up crazy families can be.

Of course, this has nothing to do with travel but marriage can be difficult enough to last these days without having to deal with people that are actively making your life/marriage difficult.

Personally, when I read a wedding during the Vivid festival, I thought wow. Now that's a wedding I would like to go to.

yes I do call them toxic and say I don't need it in my life. Well I have since the engagement party. I also had a run in with his mum 5 years ago and have maintained since then that IF we had kids they might not even know they had grandparents on his side because I don't trust her and they shouldn't be subjected to what she thinks is acceptable. She isn't violent but she does use a LOT of guilt trips to get what she wants (i.e. I will cry at your wedding if you don't have your brothers as groomsmen, I will cry UNTIL your wedding if you don't do this or that) which I think is outrageous for a mother. If it were with good intent I might be able to understand, but its only ever for esteem or show, its about her, how she is perceived not about anyone else's health or happiness.

Vivid & Quay is still on the list, the very short list of things I'd do. I am not sure how hard it is to get a wedding booking at Quay during Vivid but I did get their prices and it was cheaper per person than the catering at my BIL's wedding last weekend, and he then had to pay for venue hire (basically the same amount again) and all the decorations etc etc. We like to eat out and enjoy food fancy or not. Most people in both our families are very umm, well, my mum complained at the outback steak house in america because in Australia we don't have the salad before we have it with the meal. And she was also very upset at teppanyaki when things didn't come altogether. So we discussed if it was worth the $250+ per head meal for people who really won't like it.

 

[Denali]

..... I think on the second point you'll have more success by involving her with the planning .....

Worse advise ever. Smother-in-law is (might be) a guest. She shows up on time, smiles, congratulates and leaves. Guests don't get a say in the planning and FMIL has already proven she is a toxic person to OPs relationship and fiancé.

If your fiancé is OK to be married in the Himalayans to avoid his mum, that tells you his mum isn't the person to be included in planning.

 

[shellthom]

Having experienced my cousin's wedding where the cousin in law got her way and totally ignored her MiL, I would advise caution. In my cousin's case his wife wanted a coughtail party, standing up, no tables or chairs finger foods in boxes. Not a traditional reception is fair enough. But she (almost) totally ignored her MiL'd advice that there were a number of older people attending, including frail grandparents. So a good idea for a wedding reception where everyone is young. In the end a couple of tables were set up, thereby killing the coughtail party idea. Also bad was the delivery of the dinner boxes was stupidly late, as in here's the food, now get out. Not good for diabetic frail octogenarians.

Anyway the point of my story is it sounds like you need to achieve a balance. 1) You should at least listen to the MiLs advice and consider. It might save you from the types of issues mentioned. But 2) you need to put her in her place. As in you need to establish a relationship and standing based on mutually respect. (Very difficult).

I think on the second point you'll have more success by involving her with the planning and listening but making your own decisions. By doing something like suggested you then own that entirely, opening yourself to constant complaints in the future. Involving her also creates the chance for her to develop some respect for you, also plays into her desire to have a daughter. But then you know her way better than me.

Anyway, my cousin did have a good/enjoyable wedding. Just a couple of minor points that the MiL had predicted and would have addressed.

I thought traditionally the parents of the bride paid for weddings. So not sure how your MiL could have daughters and not pay for the wedding.

This is why we tried to include her in our engagement party. She had complained for 8 months that she wanted to through the others an engagement party at her house, so thats what we were going to do, have ours at her house. We tried to plan it with her, it was going to be a fantastic garden party, much like the wedding of her son, we had bought all of the decorations over the last 2 years and everything was just "too much" for her. She complained at the wedding (morning of or after I forget) that it had all been a lot of stress and effort for her, what?!? Any time we tried to sit with her and discuss our plans we would start by saying, we have beverage dispensers and thats as far as we would get and she would say something like, no one can do this. no one can do that. We were the ones who were actually saying, theres old people they need sitting and shade, if its hot they need fan or aircon. If it was up to her, I don't know actually, because she whinged for so long about not getting to host one then whinged about everything to do with hosting one.

She is in a toxic relationship with her sons and husband. She literally talks at walls. She doesn't actually listed when people talk. i.e. we stayed there and went out for dinner with friends, when we got back she asked how it was and her son says it was terrible and she said thats good and walked off.

I can live a life time with her complaining about not getting to go to something. She has done it about things in the past. It would be her regret not mine (I don't want her there, its only out of courtesy to my partner that she would be invited), she has been invited to NYE on our rooftop with the views that we have when we had a big party and she was really rude about the fact that we "had the hide" to invite her and didn't come. The brother who just got married did come, and MIL has since said she wished she had some, it sounded lovely, she is sad she missed out, blah blah.

So as far as putting her in her place and having mutual respect, she doesn't talk about anything of substance, a chat to sort it out will involve her telling her side and then leaving. Think of all the worst things of a teenage girl. Ad in the fact she is possessive of her kids. If you know of a way to deal with that I would love to hear it. They do like me actually, no one challenges them like I do (I am nice really lol) but I know they are toxic and just don't want to be involved with that anymore. I saw her true colours and they were much worse than I thought so the shock of that took a while to get over. I do need my partner to really think of the affect it would have on him if they couldn't/wouldn't come though. They threatened that for our engagement party and I know he would have been really hurt if they didn't come (because then they would have meant it when they said he was out of the family etc) but he agrees that he gets the wonderful supportive family on my side and I get drama and name calling on his. He thinks its funny. The first time he had EVER in his life been told his had done a good job at something, he helped my dad build his house and he got an actual pat on the back "good job today thanks for the help" and a handshake and he ran over to me almost crying and asked what that was and why that had just happened. He had never experienced gratitude from a parent/adult before. That made me so sad.

 

[Denali]

If you were to have children, how do you plan on handling tantrums? Because you know your FMIL will not die from crying or having a hissy because she didn't get her way. You teach her how she is to treat you. Giving in to her is not the way to go about it.

The more you post, the more I suggest you need therapy with your fiancé in making a healthy plan in dealing with FMIL or eventually cutting her out of your life because shes had a life time of being a manipulative cough and has no intention of changing. Substance abuse counsellors are good because they are OK with cutting toxic people out of your life. Do not include MIL in therapy. Ever. You don't have to be the "bigger person", because being the bigger person and accepting other people treating you like this means be a door mat and lie flatter.

 

[shellthom]

Worse advise ever. Smother-in-law is (might be) a guest. She shows up on time, smiles, congratulates and leaves. Guests don't get a say in the planning and FMIL has already proven she is a toxic person to OPs relationship and fiancé.

If your fiancé is OK to be married in the Himalayans to avoid his mum, that tells you his mum isn't the person to be included in planning.

I think he is coming from the angle of I am just trying to exclude her because I don't like her/dont want to involve her. I would love for her to be the kind of person that was helpful but slightly over bearing. Unfortunately its not the case. Not this person. MANY others I am sure. And I am sure there are DIL's who just don't like the MIL just because, with no real reasoning other than its MIL. Just. Can't.
It is great though that people still want to see the best in those that don't know. And I do need to think about how much I am willing to do for her/to include her in my life. She is my partners mother and family after all, one he wants to maintain a relationship with. A distant relationship is all he ever wanted and it is my fault for asking him to try and be nicer to his mother so it would be more comfortable for us all. He struggled with that and I should have accepted his family is not like mine and not tried to "repair" it. That is normal to them, with his brother however they have a much better relationship now (well up until our engagement party as the drama involved us, the soon to be wedded couple and the mum, so things between us and the wedding couple were a bit strained as the BIL thought the worst of me - because I was the one that said his mum was badly behaved and horrible about his wife). I have my family. I shouldn't have tried/try to replicate that through his.

 

[Gogo65]

What about a cruise

 

[shellthom]

If you were to have children, how do you plan on handling tantrums? Because you know your FMIL will not die from crying or having a hissy because she didn't get her way. You teach her how she is to treat you. Giving in to her is not the way to go about it.

The more you post, the more I suggest you need therapy with your fiancé in making a healthy plan in dealing with FMIL or eventually cutting her out of your life because shes had a life time of being a manipulative cough and has no intention of changing. Substance abuse counsellors are good because they are OK with cutting toxic people out of your life. Do not include MIL in therapy. Ever. You don't have to be the "bigger person", because being the bigger person and accepting other people treating you like this means be a door mat and lie flatter.

I and the other DIL think she needs some help, we do think she might have an actual mental problem.
She has only been told no/she is wrong twice in her life. Both by me. The second time resulting in me being called Evil by her mother.
Tantrums with kids or tantrums with FMIL? I have a lot of educational psychology books from studying to be a teacher so I'd read up on those, especially the special education ones I have. I found them really relevant to every day life not just kids with special needs, they have a lot of information on coping and getting the right information so you can address the actual situation. I don't think I would be a good parent because I have no maternal instincts and thus I don't want kids. If my partner says he really wants them (not i think we should have them because "its what you do") then we agreed we can try - not sure I can have them anyway.
Tantrums from her? I don't expect to encounter any directly. At the moment I can't see a time when we would have her see them. I suspect she would expect to be there for the birth, as my mum would. I am sure it would be disappointing for my mother that one of the grandparents of my child wasn't involved but she has also said I have given her enough chances and I should cut her from my life. My mum does want a lot of my attention as I have been there the most through her illness, but I don't think she would say it from a selfish place.

 

[shellthom]

What about a cruise

I had considered cruise, but I know people who would come and have hated them in the past.
At the moment I do count about 12 people (my side) who would come, just because they have always wanted to do a holiday they way i do a holiday, if for no other reason. It being our "wedding" just gives them a way to justify it.

 

[Denali]

What about a cruise

Confined space, large body of water. Could work. Does smother-in-law know how to swim?

 

[shellthom]

Confined space, large body of water. Could work. Does smother-in-law know how to swim?

This made me laugh...

I don't know how to swim and its more likely to be me in the drink hahaha.

 

[JessicaTam]

It will take some serious planning.

If you want a *good TR* I will have to make someone else join so they can write it.
I am horrible at telling stories, they are too long!!

Ok, if I have to.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Wow. Don't envy your situation ShellThom. I'm thinking that you should possibly be calling in the Dog Whisperer Cesar Millan as opposed to a wedding planner right now as you've got a textbook redzone case here that needs to know some rules, boundaries and limitations.

And there are a couple of red flags here as to how previous events have panned out. And every wedding planned is complicated just doing the ceremony and reception let alone such a huge planning event as this.

My son attended his mates wedding in South America. The wedding itself consisted of multiple ceremonies. A group of friends rented a house and had a wonderful time. But the difference here is that the guests organised it themselves leaving the bridal couple to deal with all the ceremonies.

I think this is the key thing - by all means invite people to your destination wedding but let them planning plan their own trip. It would be hard enough trying to organise and wedding and a holiday/honeymoon for yourselves never mind for 20 or so other people. It would just be way too much on your plate IMHO.

Vegas and Hawaii seem popular bucket list destinations for al lot of people so why not get married in Vegas & honeymoon in Hawaii which would give people more options eg some may just do Hawaii only, others Vegas and Hawaii and some may do Vegas then do their own thing before or after.

I would set the dates & try to do it outside US or Australian school holidays as fares will be the most expensive then work out when you'll be in Vegas & when you'll be in Hawaii. Maybe do a Facebook page or some other webpage you can update regularly with details for the event complete with the dates & where you'll be staying.

* Leave any travel arrangements up to the individual to book - don't have them pay you etc as that's just too much work
* I wouldn't do an Amazing Race type mystery scenario as most people want to know what they're doing, when & how much
* Special dinners, sightseeing or touring can be done closer to the time once you know who is coming
* A lot of hotels in Vegas would have wedding packages where all the important stuff is taken care of by a wedding planner so I'd leave that bit to the experts

Most importantly make it clear to your future M-I-L that emotional blackmail will not be tolerated under any circumstances. As they say in the South "them days is over"! If she threatens "to cry if (insert excuse here)" tell her "what makes you think you're even invited"?

If she does come instead of Elvis walking you down the aisle it could be The Terminator so if she plays up it'll be 'hasta la vista baby'.

 

[MissBurrill]

Any suggestions on the best way to pull it off? Has anyone done it before? Comments from those who have planned a wedding or group trip also appreciated (on if its ridiculous and for more effort and stress than its worth etc etc).

My husband and I got married in Hawaii last year. I won't bore you with the details but my MIL hasn't spoken to us since early last year because we got married overseas. My FIL attended but he initially sided with MIL and wasn't going to attend. Whatever you decide to do at YOUR wedding you will upset people.

The wedding was quite easy to organise. We looked online and chose a company who organise everything. We got married on a Thursday so alot of guests made it a week long holiday. Dinner was in a private dinning room at the restaurant at the top of our hotel. We gave advice on where to stay but left it to our guests to book their flights and accommodation. You will have guests who want lots of help but most seem to enjoy planning their trip.

The downside to choosing Hawaii was that I felt like I was hosting our guests quite a bit. My parents and I have been to Hawaii numerous times so were the experts to give advice. My husband and I cruised back via French Polynesia and NZ so that was our relaxing time away from the guests.

For me the hardest part was working out how to get my gown safely to Hawaii. We ended up allocating a suitcase to the gown which my parents took with them. Once there they hung up the gown and the creases fell out. Our logic was that if the gown was lost or damaged I would have a couple of weeks to find a replacement.

Just like all weddings you will have people telling you how they want your wedding to go. One friend was really annoyed I didn't follow the old, new, borrowed, blue tradition. Another 'friend' got angry we were going overseas - if we had stayed in Brisbane she wouldn't have been invited anyway. The one thing I was committed to was a small guest list.

Logistically Hawaii was easy for us. The service was a mile from our hotel. If we had married in Brisbane the service would have been at the Barracks which means signing in guests and there isn't a hotel near the Barracks so we would have needed a bus or lots of designated drivers.

My best advice is to get married mid-week and keep the plan simple. Some people will do their own thing while others want to dine with you each evening. Even if it's just a few days, add a honeymoon to the end. You will appreciate the time alone as newlyweds.

 

[shellthom]

My partner has told me not to even try to please anyone else, I have done it in the past and it just ends with me in tears. He thinks I am selfless (hardly) but after our engagement party he sat me down and said that its about us and its about me, I need to stop considering others and just do what I/We want. I did have a lot of, don't get too much food, don't spend too much comments about our engagement party and "offers of help" that felt a lot more like slaps in the face but I do know they *actually* meant well. That whole experience taught me a few things and hardened me up a bit. Yes, no one should *expect* an invite and the engagement party was about celebrating with everyone because we did always intend to have the wedding overseas and its likely most won't be able to attend, and our invite also indicated there would be no traditional wedding so if they wanted to come to a traditional event they should come to the party (which was then wholeheartedly ruined by Future MIL, our guests still had a good time and looking back on it my partner said he enjoyed it as well… me… well, its done and I'm glad its over).

Website, checklist, etc etc great ideas. I hadn't thought of those… yet. I have thought hawaii but the flights aren't that much cheaper than going to the mainland.

What I am hearing is - if I am going to do it I have to do it well, but don't do it and save yourself the stress. haha.

I would love someone to plan a holiday for me. My partner thinks it is a good ideas because its inviting everyone into our world, as we have done surprise trips for each other before. So I will have to tell him to stop encouraging me haha.

Yes some hotels I looked at said stay 5 nights and get a free wedding - that sounds great!

 

[medhead]

I'm certainly not making a judgement about what you do and do not what to do with your fmil. I'm simply suggesting that it might be best to try to build a relationship with her. Or change the existing relationship. Given that you are presumably embarking on a life long adventure with her as part of the family. (I certainly reject the claim that this is the "worse advice ever") I make this suggestion as someone whose mother was one of nine and my after one if three = lots of cousins and lots of personal relationships. Also as someone with a mother who can be overbearing and who has experienced the failures of relationship with past girlfriends, as well as the successes of SWMBO.

End of the day you'll do what you feel is best. I'm outta here.