(Already Taken) Award Flight Change from QF36 to EK404 - What are my options for SCs / points / refund?

[yld200]

I recently got back from an OS trip and flew IST-SIN on SQ with a connecting QF award flight on EK404 to MEL in J for 3 pax.

My original booking SIN-MEL was on QF36 but about a month before the flight, I received a notification that QF36 was cancelled, and my booking was 'updated' to QF38 departing 3 hours later. I didn't take any action while I explored other options to get back to MEL but nothing came up, so I went through the 'Review and Accept' process in the email. It was my first time going thru the process, so I wasn't sure what to expect, however it offered alternative flights to select in addition to QF38. One of which was QF8404 (EK404). The timing worked better so I thought lets give it a go and confirmed all of the changes online. I followed up within 24 hours and made sure it was all ticketed - and it was. It was a really smooth and seamless process - I was quite surprised.

Here is where I'm trying to work out what my options are. So the facts relating to my flights are:
1) The original booking was points + $213 SGD per pax
2) The original routing should have credited me 48 SC with my points club
3) The re-issued tickets were on a QF number, QF8404 'C' class which is J Flex based on the QF table. J Flex SIN-MEL is 135 SC + 13,500 points
4) No refund or adjustment of taxes was made with the changed flights
5) Taxes for an EK J award flight from SIN>MEL is $84 SGD per pax
6) I have not received any SC or points for the flights. The flight appears on my activity statement as '14-Aug-2023 - QF SIN 8404/SINGAPORE MEL CLASSIC FLIGHT REWARD/12-AUG-2023 -' with no SC or points.

It would have been nice to receive the J Flex SCs, but I don't think that will happen. So that brings me to trying to work out whether I should be able to claim the original 48 SC I was expecting, and whether I can also claim the difference in taxes ($129 SGD x3 pax). Do I have any options here? Just want to brace myself before having to contact QF.

Any advice would be great.

 

[dajop]

and whether I can also claim the difference in taxes ($129 SGD x3 pax). l

That’s not the way these things usually work. When you are reaccomodated they usually just substitute a different flight or set of flights (and in this case carrier too) to fulfil the original booking you made. It would seem that the new flights weren’t even in the classic award booking class.

That aside, even if you did have success with such a request you would also be hit for 6,600 pts per passenger as the points required for a classic award on Emirates are higher than on Qantas.

You may be able to make a case for “Original Routing Credit” (use those exact words) for the points club status credits by requesting via the frequent flyer service centre.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

That’s not the way these things usually work. When you are reaccomodated they usually just substitute a different flight or set of flights (and in this case carrier too) to fulfil the original booking you made. It would seem that the new flights weren’t even in the classic award booking class.

During irregular operations, particularly with international itineraries like this one, airlines like Qantas have been known to provide passengers with more latitude than just a single back up flight. Indeed, Qantas has boasted of offer this rebooking tool for impacted customers for some time. When I had an AC flight go IRROP earlier this year, AC provided me with an online rebooking tool that allowed me to choose from multiple different carriers, including Asiana. I chose the Asiana option and it ticketed as a C fare (like OP). So again, nothing unusual there.

That aside, even if you did have success with such a request you would also be hit for 6,600 pts per passenger as the points required for a classic award on Emirates are higher than on Qantas.

When you encounter irregular operations, there is nothing "due". The airline initiated the change (be it cancellation or schedule change) so they are on the hook for making that right. Things like change fees or fare differences simply don't exist in this instance.

You may be able to make a case for “Original Routing Credit” (use those exact words) for the points club status credits by requesting via the frequent flyer service centre.

This is the minimum that Qantas must provide. It is not the passenger's fault that their originally booked flight was cancelled, but they should receive the status credits the originally bargained for (at a minimum) and possibly even the status credits they would earn under the new booking code (whichever is greater). In addition, if their trip originated from the European Union they have rights. They are entitled to up to 600 Euros compensation if they arrive at their destination more than 3 hours after scheduled arrival. It doesn't matter if the delay was caused by a cancelled flight outside of the European Union, what matters is when they arrive at that final destination, since their contract with Qantas is to transport them from the origin to the destination.

-RooFlyer88

 

[dajop]

This is the minimum that Qantas must provide. It is not the passenger's fault that their originally booked flight was cancelled, but they should receive the status credits the originally bargained for (at a minimum) and possibly even the status credits they would earn under the new booking code (whichever is greater). In addition, if their trip originated from the European Union they have rights. They are entitled to up to 600 Euros compensation if they arrive at their destination more than 3 hours after scheduled arrival. It doesn't matter if the delay was caused by a cancelled flight outside of the European Union, what matters is when they arrive at that final destination, since their contract with Qantas is to transport them from the origin to the destination.

The OP clearly stated "I recently got back from an OS trip and flew IST-SIN on SQ with a connecting QF award flight on EK404 to MEL in J for 3 pax." and "about a month before the flight, I received a notification that QF36 was cancelled"

EU261 and talk of 600 euro compensation is completely irrelevant, as
1) IST is in Turkey, who are not a member of EU and
2) Even if they were, or had mirror legislation, as there is no way to combine an SQ booking into a QF award flight, technically this is not a "connecting flight". The QF award flight would be completely independent of the SQ booking and thus any compensation due relates only to that flight
3) Booking was cancelled >14 days so EU261 compensation wouldn't apply anyway even if it were on the one booking and originated in the EU!

{Also OP would not be entitled to SC's or points for the new booking class in QFF, but they may or may not be able to retroclaim through a different FF program that EK partner with (such as Skywards). Probably not likely in this instance due to linkage between QFF and EK, but if they were, for example, booked onto a commercial SQ fare, they could almost certainly claim SQ miles for the flight).

 

[jpp42]

During irregular operations, particularly with international itineraries like this one, airlines like Qantas have been known to provide passengers with more latitude than just a single back up flight

How is it "irregular operations" when the rebooking happened a month in advance? This is a schedule change...

Qantas could argue that they had offered the OP a QF option (QF 38) and it was OP's choice to choose the EK option which doesn't earn SC's (which is standard/expected on such an itinerary on EK codes). However, I agree with the strategy to email the FFSC requesting original routing credit without reference to the fact that this choice was provided.

{Also OP would not be entitled to SC's or points for the new booking class in QFF, but they may or may not be able to retroclaim through a different FF program that EK partner with (such as Skywards). Probably not likely in this instance due to linkage between QFF and EK, but if they were, for example, booked onto a commercial SQ fare, they could almost certainly claim SQ miles for the flight).

I've done this before, back in the days of VA longhaul, I was booked SFO-LAX (DL), LAX-SYD (VA). Delta's connecting flight was cancelled and no others would allow me to make the connection, so I managed to get reaccommodated on the SFO-SYD direct flight that existed back then. Managed to get ORC from Virgin for the original itinerary, and Qantas points for the SFO-SYD leg actually flown.

 

[RichardMEL]

It's absolutely not irrops, and this obsession with EU/UK261 is over the top imo. It simply doesn't apply. IST-SIN isn't even the issue, it was SIN-MEL, got nothing to do with any of that stuff. Even if the OP had originated within the EU proper, this isn't a connection in the real sense since it was a QF CR clearly booked separately to the IST-SIN on SQ. Separate tickets. would not apply even if this WAS irrops (which it is not clearly).


As for the SC's... I suppose one could put a claim in for the PC SC's given the rescheduled QF38 did not meet requirements for the OP, and thus an involuntary change. They might question moving to the EK404 due to the timing of that flight, but I would consider a claim on the buunds of that. They (QFF) can only say no.

oy vey....

 

[kangarooflyer88]

The OP clearly stated "I recently got back from an OS trip and flew IST-SIN on SQ with a connecting QF award flight on EK404 to MEL in J for 3 pax." and "about a month before the flight, I received a notification that QF36 was cancelled"

For some reason I thought Turkey was part of the EU. Since it isn't that you are correct that EU261 would not apply. As for IST-SIN on SQ and connecting onto QF award flight, it is a possibility depending on how the award was constructed. For instance, if OP booked IST to AU with the IST to SIN operated by a partner like QR or EK but then there are schedule changes and QF has to book OAL then such an itinerary is possible (QF must have an interline agreement with SQ)

{Also OP would not be entitled to SC's or points for the new booking class in QFF, but they may or may not be able to retroclaim through a different FF program that EK partner with (such as Skywards). Probably not likely in this instance due to linkage between QFF and EK, but if they were, for example, booked onto a commercial SQ fare, they could almost certainly claim SQ miles for the flight).

At a minimum though they should get the status credits for the flight they booked. Again, they did not initiate the change, QF did so and did so at their peril. It is not the passenger's fault that they must take an alternate flight.

How is it "irregular operations" when the rebooking happened a month in advance? This is a schedule change...

It is a flight interruption nevertheless. Whether one wants to call it an IRROP (which normally refers to changes made on date of travel for operational reasons) or a schedule change, the impact is very similar.

Qantas could argue that they had offered the OP a QF option (QF 38) and it was OP's choice to choose the EK option which doesn't earn SC's (which is standard/expected on such an itinerary on EK codes).

Yes they offered the passenger a QF option, but that option may not be comparable to what the passenger originally had. When you interrupt someone's trip in that way, what is a reasonable option is really left up to the traveller not the airline. For instance, I suspect many people on this forum when given the option between a 13 hour layover at Changi versus a 3 hour layover would probably choose the 3 hour layover. In other instances, the travel interruption may result in the passenger having to move things around in their schedule. Consequently, they may choose a later flight to better suit this need. All of this to say, if the airline interrupts my travel, it's on them to make it right by me.

-RooFlyer88

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It looks in the case the OP got in considerably earlier than anticipated. IST-SIN arrives at 5am or so.

QF36 departed at 815pm. QF38 at 1130pm. The EK404 was at 1025am… shaving around 10 hours off the total journey time.

I’d say it was a ‘score’ for the passenger!

 

[yld200]

Thanks for all the feedback. I now have a better understanding of what is expected and involved in situations such as this. My next course of action will be to follow up with QF on original routing credit.

I'm aware of the basics of EU261 but that was completely out of scope in my situation.

It looks in the case the OP got in considerably earlier than anticipated. IST-SIN arrives at 5am or so.

QF36 departed at 815pm. QF38 at 1130pm. The EK404 was at 1025am… shaving around 10 hours off the total journey time.

I’d say it was a ‘score’ for the passenger!

Yes that's correct. When initially booking our flights, there were no other alternatives, so we had a plan to spend an afternoon in Singapore and get some Chilli crab. However, when the opportunity came up to move onto the EK flight (for their inferior J product) we decided to cancel our day trip plans.