Air Asia drama ex-Per

[jb747]

I would expect all airlines flying in/out of Australian ports to be at the same, high standards we require of "Australian" airlines.

They operate to their own regulators standards, not to ours. CASA has no input.

 

[exceladdict]

The operate to their own regulators standards, not to ours. CASA has no input.

Forgive me for the trump-style comment, but surely there is some sort of permission as a country we grant the airline to fly into our ports?

 

[jb747]

Air Asia's plane that was flying PER-DPS on shoddy equipment, that subsequently crashed, a few years ago is increasing my scepticism of their operations meeting minimum standards.

I don't know that it was shoddy equipment. Apparently the captain pulled some CBs that should not be touched in flight. That caused the aircraft to change laws. The FO subsequently lost control of it. He apparently wasn't watching the AI as the change happened, and the aircraft rolled to about 50º of bank over about 10 seconds. In getting it from there, back to wings level, he lost it. Degree of difficultly ... about zero.

 

[jb747]

Forgive me for the trump-style comment, but surely there is some sort of permission as a country we grant the airline to fly into our ports?

Yes, but we have no control over their training or standards. It's a total myth that because an airline flies to Oz that its standards are at least as good as ours. I'm sure some may be better, but....

Mind you, some things happen here that make you scratch your head too.

 

[basso]

it may be possible as well that the lack of ILS spooked the pilot out of trying for Learmonth, their level of experience would have been too strained with that level of manual flying? (which in itself is fairly scandalous given they probably shouldn't be operating to Australian ports!)

There's a lack of lots of things at LEA. AFAIK, it doesn't meet ICAO standards.

Maybe the real problem is that PER doesn't really have any good alternate airports.....

 

[MEL_Traveller]

There's a lack of lots of things at LEA. AFAIK, it doesn't meet ICAO standards.

Maybe the real problem is that PER doesn't really have any good alternate airports.....

I'm sure the Hudson doesn't meet ICAO standards either... but if your plane is in distress, does it matter?

 

[basso]

I'm sure the Hudson doesn't meet ICAO standards either... but if your plane is in distress, does it matter?

Maybe, but before people go pointing at the shortcomings of international airlines, perhaps they should consider the shortcomings of our own infrastructure.....

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Maybe, but before people go pointing at the shortcomings of international airlines, perhaps they should consider the shortcomings of our own infrastructure.....

Emergency services were supposedly on standby for a possible ditching, yet the pilot passes a perfectly good runway. Yes the infrastructure have shortcomings, but do you kill everyone on board just to make that point?

 

[moa999]

Copying this from airliners.net thread, from a poster who found it on Facebook.
A passengers perspective which adds colour around certain events
(Note I have no knowledge on whether this was an actual passenger or a company shrill)

"My name is Madeline Wright and I was involved in the Air Asia engine incident on sunday morning (24th june) traveling from Perth to Kuala lumpur on my family's way to Vietnam. After hearing the loud bang, our aircraft began to shake vigorously and panic fell across all 359 passengers. Our reassuring captain talked us through the whole situation and gave us every piece of information he had.*

The way we all cooperated and remained calm throughout the event made it easier for crew aboard to help us and for our captain to fly us to safety. No one screamed. The fact that we and other passengers paid less for a flight is not the reason for this planes accident. A technical problem like this could happen on any plane and Air Asia's cheaper flights are not to blame. The aircraft was checked thoroughly before departure like all planes are and was regulated by the same air safety organisations. People should not be criticising Air Asia for missing anything - technical problems happen all the time, even on more expensive flights. We didn't pay less for a technical problem, we paid less for no electronic devices, no meals and less leg room. Air Asia is an amazing company and i have flown with them many times before, always with great service and perfect take off and landing.*

It disgusts me that people are criticising our captain for telling us to pray and are trying to get him fired. The full context was, "Everything is under control in the coughpit. If you want to say a prayer, that might help too." his ask for prayer was said in such way that it was only to make us feel better and if it helped that was an individual thing. He was professional. He was human. He was a reassuring voice during this event and gave us hope, he is the reason i am still alive and i cannot thank him enough. English was his second language and he had a little trouble speaking to us but what he said was enough. Interestingly, despite 80% of his passengers being Asian descent, he only spoke in English through the incident.

And to the people blaming Air Asia for the event, it was not their fault and they did their best to keep us comfortable during the incident and the aftermath. Yes, we did stay in an airport for several hours waiting on news of what was to happen next, but they provided us with vouchers for food and water and the wait was only to ensure the best for us. During this time it was telling that everyone was calm, tolerant and patient - not all like a standard 3-hr wait in a queue. We were given the choice of full refunds of tickets, a rescheduled flight, or to stay in the airport a little longer for a later flight. It took time because during the chaos period, they needed to work out a plan and then communicate that plan. I'd rather wait to get one correct story than get four hastily-delivered wrong stories.

For those of you criticising Air Asia, our pilot and we on board, please stop. The bravery of our crew and captain should be praised not criticised, they did the best they could for us, and everyone is safe."

 

[Quickstatus]

There's a lack of lots of things at LEA. AFAIK, it doesn't meet ICAO standards.

Maybe the real problem is that PER doesn't really have any good alternate airports.....

Well it does have an ICAO designation : YPLM
QantasLink goes there
RAAF goes there though not regularly
So can't be so bad that you won't go there if you were in trouble?

Most importantly it has a long runway which was available to the D7 pilots + clear day / good weather.
And QF72 arrived there as well.

(Though I think that uncontrolled airfields even grass strips can have an icao designation such as the Jindabyne NSW airstrip YJIN)

 

[NZflygirl]

Copying this from airliners.net thread, from a poster who found it on Facebook.
A passengers perspective which adds colour around certain events
(Note I have no knowledge on whether this was an actual passenger or a company shrill)

Interesting - this doesn't read with the emotional perspective I would expect for a passenger on this flight.


I don't have any issue with a pilot asking people to pray whether it was cultural or just scared under the circumstances. I would have said a prayer or 10 regardless! He did his job though and got them back to ground safely - tick!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Copying this from airliners.net thread, from a poster who found it on Facebook.
A passengers perspective which adds colour around certain events
(Note I have no knowledge on whether this was an actual passenger or a company shrill)

Wow! If that was designed as a PR piece it fails... PR has to be believable. How on earth would the passenger know Air Asia's plane was 'thoroughly checked before departure'?

i wonder how many posts madelanie Wright has?

 

[Quickstatus]

Perfect takeoff and landings?. Just don't mention QZ8501 and the one where the pilots incorrectly programmed the wrong Nav codes then further stuffed things up causing the aircraft to revert to a state where VFR rules had to apply causing the divert to MEL

 

[mannej]

Perfect takeoff and landings?. Just don't mention QZ8501 and the one where the pilots incorrectly programmed the wrong Nav codes then further stuffed things up causing the aircraft to revert to a state where VFR rules had to apply causing the divert to MEL

Or the two landings where they busted minimums coming into OOL?

 

[jb747]

There's a lack of lots of things at LEA. AFAIK, it doesn't meet ICAO standards.

In exactly what way are you talking about? It probably doesn't have the required fire facilities for RPT operation of an A330, but that has no bearing on its use in an emergency. As I said previously, I'd have no compunction about dropping a 380 in there if I needed it.

Maybe the real problem is that PER doesn't really have any good alternate airports.....

Alternates for Perth are a totally different issue.

 

[jb747]

Perfect takeoff and landings?. Just don't mention QZ8501 and the one where the pilots incorrectly programmed the wrong Nav codes then further stuffed things up causing the aircraft to revert to a state where VFR rules had to apply causing the divert to MEL

There were two events where they ignored an intermediate altitude restriction on a non precision approach into Coolangatta. I think it was found that they only ever did one particular non precision approach in their sim training, and it didn't have any platforms on the way down. These approaches are always different, and all have to be treated appropriately. Basic instrument rating stuff...

The Sydney departure issue was caused by the IRSs being loaded with an alignment position that was thousands of miles in error. Because they couldn't get the nav displays to make sense, they took off in plan mode. The system had no idea about where it was, and I'm surprised it had any idea of which way was up. ATC got them the Melbourne, where they did a visual approach.

Engine shutdown near Alice Springs. Diverted away from Alice, flew past Adelaide. Landed Melbourne. Speeds prior to the descent seemed very low. Both Alice and Adelaide were perfectly acceptable.

 

[Flying Fox]

Copying this from airliners.net thread, from a poster who found it on Facebook.
A passengers perspective which adds colour around certain events
(Note I have no knowledge on whether this was an actual passenger or a company shrill)

Yes really does read like a company PR exercise.

I'm going to call BS on this until further notice

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The comments on Ms Wright's facebook page make interesting reading... anyone daring to question the actions of the pilots is shot down, and the pilot is hailed a hero for landing the plane. The names of the posters suggest perhaps national pride is playing a role? The Malay opposition MP who spoke out against the pilot asking passengers to pray has been labelled 'an extremist opposition member' and universally condemned.

If nothing else it certainly makes you appreciate living in Australia.

 

[GarrettM]

The comments on Ms Wright's facebook page make interesting reading... anyone daring to question the actions of the pilots is shot down, and the pilot is hailed a hero for landing the plane. The names of the posters suggest perhaps national pride is playing a role? The Malay opposition MP who spoke out against the pilot asking passengers to pray has been labelled 'an extremist opposition member' and universally condemned.

If nothing else it certainly makes you appreciate living in Australia.

The fact this one post has almost 2500 comments, and she only has a handful of other posts on her FB, is certainly suspicious.
Pics suggest she's about 12 years old to boot.

 

[oz_mark]

Emergency services were supposedly on standby for a possible ditching, yet the pilot passes a perfectly good runway. Yes the infrastructure have shortcomings, but do you kill everyone on board just to make that point?

I don't know what they were told, but apparently maritime authorities are nearly always alerted in circumstances such as this.