AFF Information Sharing?!

[JohnK]

An even playing field would, shock horror, mean returning to back end of the plane :shock:

Not if you have never left.

Not meaning to be nasty but this site offers way too much information for those who have no interest in sharing or ever offer anything in return.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

Not if you have never left.

Not meaning to be nasty but this site offers way too much information for those who have no interest in sharing or ever offer anything in return.

And where did I say that I was not happy to share?

I share on this forum richly and deeply.

However 99.9% of people will either never read this forum, or act, and so the playing field will remain steeply tilted.

If the playing field ever did become level, this forum as it currently exists, would cease to need to be.

As I see it this forum is mainly about improving the flight experience, in all its meanings, for those who are of a mind to maximise to improve it, rather than being a Frequent Flying Liberation Front

 

[JohnK]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

And where did I say that I was not happy to share?

Terribly sorry if my post sounded like an attack on you. Far from it.

The number of people taking away information from this site and sharing nothing in return is growing by the day.

I love to help but there is a lot I keep to keep to myself. Others are the same.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

No problems.

I love to help but there is a lot I keep to keep to myself. Others are the same.

And some one can't share, as there are now company reps on the site.

 

[cove]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

I have been helped by AFF members and Red Roo so it works both ways for us. I try hard to pay the favours forward when I get the opportunity.

 

[markis10]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

I have been helped by AFF members and Red Roo so it works both ways for us. I try hard to pay the favours forward when I get the opportunity.

The company reps play a pretty important role at times, and I find those that participate here tend to be on the generous side when it comes to "trick it" etc anyway such as the DPS specials, AUH for under $100 etc, the QF PER specials from a few years back etc etc, and those Rockpool lunches at good for things besides the food

 

[RB]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

I am not a frequent flyer nor a frequent poster. I actually find some of the best tips on the site come from the less frequent posters. Sorry but to me high post counts don't equate to usefullness/quality/esteem. I am here to learn & enjoy the experiences of others & try to only post when I have something to add- maybe that is not how forums actually work?
Since I joined in 2004 there have been several times when the sentiments of the original post (I realise it is a broken off thread) have been expressed. I can contribute nothing/very little to help the regular domestic flyers on the site but try to help with observations of my actual experiences when travelling OS for a holiday.
I also note that I may read 100's of what I may regard as non event posts from a particular poster & then I pick up a little pearl of wisdom from them-

 

[Sdtravel]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

I'm by no means a frequent traveller but I try to give back what I can.
i admit I originally joined to gleen info about an upcoming trip later in the year but I find myself these days signing into the site almost all the time. Reading new threads and contributing as I can.

I do agree there is probably a lot of people signing up getting what they want and getting out but I don't see anyway to stop that other than to make this a closed forum where everyone must sign up. but that will only delay people from doing this. What next. Limit the forum to only those with proven status (silver or above).

In reality I don't think there is anything that can be done its inevitable and a fact that this will always happen.
we can only encourage others to participate and give back. At the end of the day we can't force anyone to do this.

 

[bryanjones]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

We should be OK to share information, but not necessarily make it as easy as 'follow these 3 steps'. I like it when ppl are cryptic as it encourages people to research, expirement, share and learn. When enquiring about *A status matching someone made a reference to a greek airlne to me. Over on FT there is talk about a colored bird for manufactured spending, etc.

.br

 

[harvyk]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

As far as I'm concerned, share away without limit...

AFFer's make up such a small percentage of travelers (despite the amount of travel we as a collective group do, it would be safe to say 99% of all flights take off without an AFF member on board), furthermore most of the tips and tricks do involve some degree of effort beyond simply jumping online and booking a trip from abc -> xyz (let's face it, if it was simple and easy everyone would be doing it). Be it special timings, using certain companies, flying non direct routes or calling up the airline and asking them for specific things. I've seen many a special trick or tip which I'd love to exploit, but the reality of work / family life / living in CBR means I don't have the chance.

Yes, company reps come on here, but the reality is that if there was a loophole which was actually affecting the company bottom line, the company would actively seek-out that loophole and close it without AFF's help, if a loophole simply gave a couple of pax some advantage, but had no actual effect on the bottom line, the airlines are just as likely to say "well good on the pax" and leave it at that.

Finally, yes there is a good percentage of AFF members who come here and never contribute, the way I see it is it's their loss, not ours.

 

[drewbles]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

As far as I'm concerned, share away without limit...
<snip>
Yes, company reps come on here, but the reality is that if there was a loophole which was actually affecting the company bottom line, the company would actively seek-out that loophole and close it without AFF's help, if a loophole simply gave a couple of pax some advantage, but had no actual effect on the bottom line, the airlines are just as likely to say "well good on the pax" and leave it at that.

Finally, yes there is a good percentage of AFF members who come here and never contribute, the way I see it is it's their loss, not ours.

There's good evidence over on FlyerTalk that this is not the case. Multiple US airlines have closed 'holes' they did not find previously, due to people having mentioned them on there. This lead to forums where everyone speaks in code, but even then, it's not tough for regular airline reps to learn said code, and fix the reported issues.

I liken it to a software company. They will employ staff specifically to find problems, bugs and defects in software prior to launch, but they then also have people silently trawling public forums for other issues the developers and software testers may not have found.

Both the airlines and the big software are infinitely complex beasts. Both types of businesses would be remiss to *not* be hanging around here to find problems.

When was the last time you saw an airline say 'good on the pax' for booking an F fare somewhere for pennies in the dollar due to an issue that exists at the airline? They fight nail and tooth to claim the cash back when others find the problem, and it's usually due to someone posting it in public, that they find these and pull them quick smart.

We may be a tiny subset of the airlines business, but we can do substantial damage to them if there are problems, and once a 'bargain' becomes known in public, word of mouth will ensure that usually non-interested travellers will go out of their way to book something, be it hidden city, fuel dumps or other items.

I'm all for sharing information, but a lot of the time, a public forum accessible to all is *not* the place. I've said it time and time again, AFF is a great enabler but some things should be shared in person at AFF meets rather than in writing on here where all and sundry, including airline reps, can see it.

 

[harvyk]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

I liken it to a software company. They will employ staff specifically to find problems, bugs and defects in software prior to launch, but they then also have people silently trawling public forums for other issues the developers and software testers may not have found.

True, and as a software developer we do look for bugs in code, but we also then look at the mitigating circumstances, and as such flag the bug with a priority from 1 to 4.

1 = Oh ye god, take the system down until this is fixed
4 = We'll get around to it sometime.

Just because a bug is reported does not mean that we'll drop everything to fix said bug, furthermore we'll always take a calm approach to fixing bugs since a fix has the potential to introduce additional bugs.
Besides, if you make a booking for a $20,000 fare for only $2,000, I would strongly suspect someone will take a quick look at how that happened to make sure you didn't hack the site (eg change client side data or change URL data) regardless of if the method was posted on a public forum or not.

 

[drewbles]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

True, and as a software developer we do look for bugs in code, but we also then look at the mitigating circumstances, and as such flag the bug with a priority from 1 to 4.

1 = Oh ye god, take the system down until this is fixed
4 = We'll get around to it sometime.

Just because a bug is reported does not mean that we'll drop everything to fix said bug, furthermore we'll always take a calm approach to fixing bugs since a fix has the potential to introduce additional bugs.
Besides, if you make a booking for a $20,000 fare for only $2,000, I would strongly suspect someone will take a quick look at how that happened to make sure you didn't hack the site (eg change client side data or change URL data) regardless of if the method was posted on a public forum or not.

Working in the industry myself, i'm very aware of how bugs are categorised and tracked (Don't get me started on Cisco...).

I'm also aware of a recent incident (which I won't name on here, many are already aware), where flights were booked for a tiny fraction of a percentage of the actual list cost. This went on for months and months, with the figure (in dollar terms) being absolutely massive. It wasn't until it was leaked somewhere public the company became aware of it.

Booking a flight for a fraction of the price often goes un-noticed in the grand scheme of things. Look at the recent issue in the US, where people sued airlines over mistake fares, and it looks like they've won.

 

[legroom]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

Terribly sorry if my post sounded like an attack on you. Far from it.

The number of people taking away information from this site and sharing nothing in return is growing by the day.

I love to help but there is a lot I keep to keep to myself. Others are the same.

JohnK

I share your sentiments completely.... but how do you know that "it is growing by the day" ?????

Just curious where you source that conclusion from.

 

[DietCoke]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

As this thread has apparently split off from another, would it be possible to clarify the purpose in the title to illustrate what the original topic was? Is the issue on discussion whether to stop sharing info altogether, or move it to a restricted section, or....?

From what I think the topic is based on, I agree with sdtravel:

I'm by no means a frequent traveller but I try to give back what I can.
i admit I originally joined to gleen info about an upcoming trip later in the year but I find myself these days signing into the site almost all the time. Reading new threads and contributing as I can.

Pretty much describes my exact situation. To be honest, there's not a lot I can offer at this stage, but hope to offer more over the years (I have officially been sucked in and check new posts most days!). Maybe in time I will never be able to match the level of input of more senior members or industry insiders, but can still offer valid input in Trip Reports and in describing my own personal experiences.

Happy to be corrected if I have misinterpreted the point of the thread.

 

[straitman]

JohnK

I share your sentiments completely.... but how do you know that "it is growing by the day" ?????

Just curious where you source that conclusion from.

I understand what JohnK is saying and I am not sure it needs to be substantiated. John has expressed an opinion, which is what the forum is about is it not?

Not everything needs hard facts to be acceptable. Many, many things here are based on people's thoughts, feelings and opinions.

For what it is worth I agree with John's opinion on this. Does it bother or worry me? No, but it does make me a little more cautious on occasions.

 

[The Rok]

I understand what JohnK is saying and I am not sure it needs to be substantiated. John has expressed an opinion, which is what the forum is about is it not?

Not everything needs hard facts to be acceptable. Many, many things here are based on people's thoughts, feelings and opinions.

For what it is worth I agree with John's opinion on this. Does it bother or worry me? No, but it does make me a little more cautious on occasions.

Awesome, not seem this on AFF for a while. Someone supporting an opinion or feeling without having to produce a spread sheet of proof or facts.

Well done.

P.S, I too agree with John.K. If I can give I will, I never try to hide anything.

Some are more generous here than others. A little while back I had a forum member who I have never met or had dealings with before share 50,000 USDM miles with me during a share promo as I had no miles. He only asked me for the cost of the share and the cost to him of obtaining those miles through a similar share. All up I got 100,000 USDM from a complete stranger for a touch over $1000. If that's not true giving then I don't know what is.

 

[legroom]

I understand what JohnK is saying and I am not sure it needs to be substantiated. John has expressed an opinion, which is what the forum is about is it not?

Not everything needs hard facts to be acceptable. Many, many things here are based on people's thoughts, feelings and opinions.

For what it is worth I agree with John's opinion on this. Does it bother or worry me? No, but it does make me a little more cautious on occasions.

First up, I am not disagreeing with JohnK's opinion (to minimise confusion).

But all opinion comes down to an evaluation of observation(s) which may or may not be factual (essentially same as what you wrote)

My Q to JohnK was essentially what observation(s) had driven him to that opinion.

They need not be factual (I'd accept that) but again, it is not possible to have an opinion without any real/imagined observation(s).

 

[markis10]

it is not possible to have an opinion without any real/imagined observation(s).

I think there would be a few religions that might argue that!

 

[JohnK]

Re: Levelling the playing field with AFF

I share your sentiments completely.... but how do you know that "it is growing by the day" ?????

Just curious where you source that conclusion from.

No hard facts. It is a suspicion I have. I could be wrong.

I did not create this thread. I posted on an Introductions thread where someone mentioned they have learnt heaps from this site and it was now time to give something back. Membership count grows daily yet the people posting are the same. Go back into some of those Introduction threads about people promising to contribute and you will find very few posts from that person.

Also take note of some of the popular threads such as Any Seat awards, US Dividend Miles and take note of the number of lurkers in the thread as opposed to members. You will be surprised.

As I said I try to help out where I can. But there are some loopholes I am not going to post at the risk of forfeiting the loophole.