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A break in the Qantas Fuel Surcharge dam wall?

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ffhound

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Hi everyone

I have been researching the situation re fuel surcharges in light of the recent drop in the price of oil. I came across a couple of articles talking about how the Phillipines Government has now outlawed fuel surcharges, it appears for flights both to and from the Phillipines.

CAB to sanction airlines imposing fuel surcharge | Business, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/business/01/06/15/expect-lower-airfares-end-week

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/business/01/12/15/pal-cebu-pacific-comply-fuel-surcharge-removal

It appears all foreign carriers must comply with this directive as well.

Assuming all airlines who fly to/from the Phillipines are forced to comply, does this mean we can avoid fuel surcharges to Europe by booking two separate legs with our points each way eg Sydney to Manila and then Manila to Paris?

Theoretically no surcharge could be levied on either ticket.

I did a quick test on the Qantas booking engine and found that taxes and charges for say a Melbourne to Amsterdam round trip were as follows

Mel - Manila (Qantas) $297.81 (isn't it illegal now for Qantas to maintain its fuel surcharge - this amount seems high?)
Manila to Amsterdam (Cathay) 448php = $12.82
Amsterdam to Manila (Cathay) 108.93E = $154.27
Manila to Melbourne (Qantas) 1333php = $38.16

Total charges = $503.06

But of the above amount close to $300 is a charge that Qantas maybe incorrectly or illegally charging.

Assuming that Qantas are incorrectly charging this amount I estimate that the total taxes and fees r/t Melbourne to Amsterdam would work out at about $300 or less. I recognise that there is an increased cost of points in booking two legs but for those who have plenty of points but not so much cash this might be attractive.

Thoughts? Can this be leveraged further? Is Manila to become a new stop on the Kangaroo route for Australian Frequent Flyers?

cheers Peter
 

moa999

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I suspect much like Brazil, there will shortly be a set of special fares for these routes
 

JohnK

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Award tickets may not have the fuel surcharges included which is a win in a way but airfares may not necessarily drop if fuel surcharges are made illegal as the base airfare will more than likely increase to compensate.
 

medhead

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I fail to see how Phillipine law applies or can be enforced for tickets sold in a different jurisdiction. I doubt the law applies as you suggest hence the difference.
 

tomcut2000

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HK law does have regulation on fuel surcharges
 

Aussie_flyer

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Just to confirm for HKG, and this has been going on for many years, two Qantas fare calculations - both for a one way Y class MEL-SIN and then MEL-HKG.

first for Singapore:

BASE FARE TAXES/FEES/CHARGES TOTAL 1- AUD1023.00 242.17XT AUD1265.17ADT
XT 165.00YQ 55.00AU 4.22WG 17.95WY
1023.00 242.17 1265.17TTL
ADT-01 YKFOAS
MEL QF SIN Q20.84 832.05NUC852.89END ROE1.199437
CARRIER RESTRICTIONS APPLY/FEES APPLY
VALIDATING CARRIER - QF

Now HKG:

BASE FARE TAXES/FEES/CHARGES TOTAL 1- AUD1202.00 170.67XT AUD1372.67ADT
XT 93.50YQ 55.00AU 4.22WG 17.95WY
1202.00 170.67 1372.67TTL
ADT-01 YLFHKO
MEL QF HKG Q20.84 981.29NUC1002.13END ROE1.199437
CARRIER RESTRICTIONS APPLY/FEES APPLY
VALIDATING CARRIER - QF

The SIN surcharge almost double that of HKG, this is EX AUSTRALIA.
 
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medhead

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It works for tickets to hkg just fine. Has done for a very long time.
Civil Aviation Department - Summary of Passenger & Cargo Fuel Surcharges

For flights departing from Hong Kong? My comment is tickets sold in another justification. Hong Kong law does not apply outside their justification. My comment is about this claim that a ticket sold in Australia for a flight arriving in Manila is subject to the Philippine law. Departing manilla sure, but not arriving there.
 

ffhound

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Just to confirm for HKG, and this has been going on for many years, two Qantas fare calculations - both for a one way Y class MEL-SIN and then MEL-HKG.

first for Singapore:



Now HKG:



The SIN surcharge almost double that of HKG, this is EX AUSTRALIA.

Thanks for the replies although I'm not entirely clear.

Does this then mean that Qantas should or should not be charging fuel surcharge on award tickets to Manila?

cheers Peter
 

medhead

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Just to confirm for HKG, and this has been going on for many years, two Qantas fare calculations - both for a one way Y class MEL-SIN and then MEL-HKG.

first for Singapore:



Now HKG:



The SIN surcharge almost double that of HKG, this is EX AUSTRALIA.

I understood that YQ covers a number of items not only fuel surcharge. What is the YQ HKG-MEL?
 

Aussie_flyer

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For flights departing from Hong Kong? My comment is tickets sold in another justification. Hong Kong law does not apply outside their justification. My comment is about this claim that a ticket sold in Australia for a flight arriving in Manila is subject to the Philippine law. Departing manilla sure, but not arriving there.

My example is a flight departing Melbourne sold in Melbourne. Its simple really... either the airline complies with the law or they are not allowed to fly to Hong Kong.
 

Aussie_flyer

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I understood that YQ covers a number of items not only fuel surcharge. What is the YQ HKG-MEL?

YQ is fuel surcharge in this case... nothing else. The fuel surcharge in the opposite direction is the same, as mandated by hk law and laid out in the pdf issued by the HK civil aviation department which i linked to earlier.
 

medhead

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YQ is fuel surcharge in this case... nothing else.

How do you know that? As I said YQ can include more than just fuel surcharge. This is especially relevant to your choice of SIN for comparison. How do we know that the SIN YQ is only fuel surcharge and not something else as well?

My example is a flight departing Melbourne sold in Melbourne. Its simple really... either the airline complies with the law or they are not allowed to fly to Hong Kong.

Of course, the post you've replied to with this, was written before your example was posted. Sorry I didn't read your example before you posted it.
 

Aussie_flyer

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How do you know that? As I said YQ can include more than just fuel surcharge. This is especially relevant to your choice of SIN for comparison. How do we know that the SIN YQ is only fuel surcharge and not something else as well?



Of course, the post you've replied to with this, was written before your example was posted. Sorry I didn't read your example before you posted it.

Because Qantas do announce what yq is and how much...http://qantasagents.resultspage.com...&keywords=mt_section_qf&isort=score&view=list
 

medhead

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I'm not sure why you can't answer a fairly straight forward question I understand what is actually been compared. As yet you've still not stated that the YQ in the SIN example is only fuel surcharge. And you link isn't at all helpful in that regard.

View attachment 41342

It is interesting that you've only now dragged in that link. Rather that a fair breakdown example that you initially put up. Anyway, I'm not interested in wasting any more time pulling teeth.
 

Supersonic Swinger

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QF has many fingers with which to plug any leaks appearing in the dam to protect their ability to charge fuel surcharges and I'm sure they'll overcome this one.

I'd read last week that QF may leave their fuel surcharges as they are and reduce the base fare to compensate for the reduction in oil prices. This of course means that when you redeem your 'valuable' QFF points for classic awards, QFF can report another boost to it's profitability.
 

Aussie_flyer

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I'm not sure why you can't answer a fairly straight forward question I understand what is actually been compared. As yet you've still not stated that the YQ in the SIN example is only fuel surcharge. And you link isn't at all helpful in that regard.


It is interesting that you've only now dragged in that link. Rather that a fair breakdown example that you initially put up. Anyway, I'm not interested in wasting any more time pulling teeth.

http://www.qantas.com.au/agents/dyn/qf/policies/YQfuelSurcharge020413.pdf (notice the headline of the PDF "YQ Fuel Surcharge Filings")

Seriously, why are you being so argumentative? Qantas use YQ as a fuel surcharge, they publish the surcharges, for Australia to Singapore its $165, for Hong Kong it is significantly less, funnily enough it is exactly the same amount set / approved by the HK Government in the document I have linked.

The point is that government controlled fuel surcharges DO exist, and are ENFORCED no matter whether the flight is departing from or arriving into that country, and regardless of point of sale.
 

ffhound

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http://www.qantas.com.au/agents/dyn/qf/policies/YQfuelSurcharge020413.pdf (notice the headline of the PDF "YQ Fuel Surcharge Filings")

Seriously, why are you being so argumentative? Qantas use YQ as a fuel surcharge, they publish the surcharges, for Australia to Singapore its $165, for Hong Kong it is significantly less, funnily enough it is exactly the same amount set / approved by the HK Government in the document I have linked.

The point is that government controlled fuel surcharges DO exist, and are ENFORCED no matter whether the flight is departing from or arriving into that country, and regardless of point of sale.

The mention of Hong Kong got me thinking.

If, as I suspect, Manila becomes a way of avoiding fuel surcharges when redeeming award tickets then this coudl impact on traffic going to or via Hong Kong. Hong Kong stands to lose visitors due to Maniala's new found "fule duty free" status.

I hope the Hong Kong Government realises this and similarly outlaws fuel surcharges on flights to and from HK in order to maintain and encourage visitors to the territory. Such a move would also be helpful for Australia's Qantas frequent flyers and besides, Hong Kong's a great city to visit!

cheers Peter
 
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ffhound

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An update. It appears that all tickets booked ex Manila are free of fuel surcharge.

So if one modifies my initial itinerary a little we get

Mel - Manila (Qantas) $297.81
Manila to Amsterdam to Manila (Emirates/Cathay) 2097 php = $59.91
Manila to Melbourne (Qantas) 1318php = $37.66

Total = $
395.38

cheers Peter
 
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