4000 Virgin passengers stranded in Melbourne

[markis10]

Not very common to use two different providers with one as a backup provider. Although I'm a little surprised that they haven't looked at getting a wireless provider to provide a link as well (faster and I would imagine cheaper than ISDN, and telstra do offer wireless services as I have used them once before to get an office up and running prior to the installation of a cable). If wireless goes down, you have the cable, if the cable goes down you have the wireless....

Its a common misconception that by going with an alternate technology or provider you have a backup, most of the wireless terminates into the network at the same location as the DSL, and if you buy a second DSL of say Internode or any of the other carriers you could find your self on the same fibre link out of the exchange as your telstra service, if that gets cut you loose wireless and all the DSL as well as frame relay, ethernet and ISDN services. A good example of this was the loss of Optus backhaul links from Brisbane last year, many other ISPs were affected including wireless services from other carriers, as they used the same backhaul, the only difference was the media used for the last mile connection.

 

[docjames]

I thought that would have been a given ...

+1 here also

 

[Natt]

I was at melbourne airport last night - it was PACKED at the Virgin check in terminal (I feel for those affected it would have been stressful).

We actually had to fly Tiger (last minute trip and it was the cheapest by far). They were ontime, which I was not counting on.

Checking in 2 hours beforehand (so as to lessen the chances of being bumped off) is a pain.

Still I was very happy that I had not chosen Virgin as the flight I would have been on was cancelled (saw it on the boards)

 

[codash1099]

I thought that would have been a given ...

and I suspect Telstra may send a bill to whoever it was that damaged their cable.

 

[MDC]

The 1700 flight from BNE to MEL that I was booked on was cancelled at 2200. I managed to get onto another flight which landed some time after 0200 today.. I can't quite remember the exact time.

The lounge did get a bit rowdy after 6 hours of drinking time!

Hopefully my 1900 MEL to BNE flight tonight is on time.

 

[Standby]

It seems there were little or no contigency in place to make a call to go to manual checkin in a timely way.
As a child I remember travelling on TAA and Ansett .The gate/checkin agent had a sheet for each flight with peeloff seat numbers by cabin.
Once all the stickers were gone the plane was full.
Another reason I favor QF. They seem to manage and recover from disruptions much better than the other 3 Dom carriers

 

[markis10]

It seems there were little or no contigency in place to make a call to go to manual checkin in a timely way.
As a child I remember travelling on TAA and Ansett .The gate/checkin agent had a sheet for each flight with peeloff seat numbers by cabin.
Once all the stickers were gone the plane was full.
Another reason I favor QF. They seem to manage and recover from disruptions much better than the other 3 Dom carriers

They did go manual as stated earlier, however the time delay impacted on crew duty hours etc, while you may have had fond memories of your manual checkin experiences as a child, the fact is they were dangerous and did not take into account thinks like true weight and balance, that may have been in fine in the technology of the day or maybe just lucky, today we are flying much closer to the line that divides safe flight from dangerous flight and there is a heavy reliance on computers and technology to make that happen.

There were 80 odd accidents as a result of issues with a RPT aircraft related to weight and balance in the last 30 years, with the advent of better systems the occurance of such accidents has gone from .2 per million flights in the late 70's to 0.06 per million flights in the last nine years (source : http://www.nlr.nl/id~7793/l~en.pdf ).

Despite having more complex systems and aircraft, we have managed to significantly reduce the chance of an accident occuring, this has come at a cost of slower back up systems than we may have seen in the past , resulting in issues like those faced yesterday, and while we may never elimiate such issues (as evidenced by the Emirates incident in MEL), I am happy to have a longer wait to board my flight if it means it will be a safer one.

 

[Standby]

They did go manual as stated earlier, however the time delay impacted on crew duty hours etc, while you may have had fond memories of your manual checkin experiences as a child, the fact is they were dangerous and did not take into account thinks like true weight and balance, that may have been in fine in the technology of the day or maybe just lucky, today we are flying much closer to the line that divides safe flight from dangerous flight and there is a heavy reliance on computers and technology to make that happen.

There were 80 odd accidents as a result of issues with a RPT aircraft related to weight and balance in the last 30 years, with the advent of better systems the occurance of such accidents has gone from .2 per million flights in the late 70's to 0.06 per million flights in the last nine years (source : http://www.nlr.nl/id~7793/l~en.pdf ).

Despite having more complex systems and aircraft, we have managed to significantly reduce the chance of an accident occuring, this has come at a cost of slower back up systems than we may have seen in the past , resulting in issues like those faced yesterday, and while we may never elimiate such issues (as evidenced by the Emirates incident in MEL), I am happy to have a longer wait to board my flight if it means it will be a safer one.

Thanks for the feedback re manual checkin.I can wear the crew hours thing because crew rosters ,like mostrosters ,are designed to be cost effective .
pls dont read anything more into my musings about flying in the 70's other than the basic reqmnts are unchanged.Bags are weighed at checkin,people are given an average weight and manifest are produced. Manual checkin can be done accurately,although online checkin and things which minimise customer /staff contact at airports I imagine has made fallback more complex with less people to actaully deal with customers when things go pear shaped.
The EK MEL accident though had nothing to do with W&B more ,as reports have indicated pilots selecting the wrong take off settings.Fatigue is being suggested as the root cause there.
I agree I'd rather be late and safe on the ground than not safe but ontime in the air.
I still maintain however that QF handle & recover from these nasty and rare occurrances better than DJ/JQ ot TT

 

[markis10]

The EK MEL accident though had nothing to do with W&B more ,as reports have indicated pilots selecting the wrong take off settings.Fatigue is being suggested as the root cause there.
I agree I'd rather be late and safe on the ground than not safe but ontime in the air.
I still maintain however that QF handle & recover from these nasty and rare occurrances better than DJ/JQ ot TT

I was indicating that the EK issue was a sign that although we had made big steps forward but still have problems owing to human involvement rather than a W& B issue .

QF probably handle issues better because they have had more real time issues in the past, the last one being Nov 19, and how soon do we forget the issues faced from last year when the new check in system was introduced. Three years ago I sat onboard a QF 767 waiting for the final load sheet for 7 hours because of a computer failure @ BNE, I would have preferred to be sitting in the QP. I am glad I was not in MEL this week, when you travel often enough you will get caught once in a while with similar situations, its hardly the glamour side of being a frequent flyer!

 

[docjames]

Thanks for the feedback re manual checkin.I can wear the crew hours thing because crew rosters ,like mostrosters ,are designed to be cost effective .

Uh, I think safety might be a factor too.....

 

[DJ737]

Hi there

Would it not be possible just to send the aircraft away ontime, without the pax (worry about moving them later).

At least the aircraft and crews would be in their correct positions, and it would contain the pax delays to mainly MEL.

Just wondering
DJ737

 

[pauly7]

and I suspect Telstra may send a bill to whoever it was that damaged their cable.

Would be kinda funny if that turned out to be Virgin!

 

[crazydave98]

Hi there

Would it not be possible just to send the aircraft away ontime, without the pax (worry about moving them later).

At least the aircraft and crews would be in their correct positions, and it would contain the pax delays to mainly MEL.

Just wondering
DJ737

No, the costs incurred in an empty flight (fuel, maintenance, landing fees, navigation, crew hours) would be just too high. Not to mention environmental impact/outcry. But also the cut cable took out the departure control system.

 

[DJ737]

Thanks for that, I wasn't aware the outage also affected the DCS.

Not to mention environmental impact/outcry

Wouldn't an empty aircraft burn less fuel and also emit less noise due to being able to climb quicker than a full aircraft

Cheers
DJ737

 

[pauly7]

But also the cut cable took out the departure control system.

Oh wow.... when it rains it pours!

 

[straitman]

Thanks for that, I wasn't aware the outage also affected the DCS.



Wouldn't an empty aircraft burn less fuel and also emit less noise due to being able to climb quicker than a full aircraft

Cheers
DJ737

Yes but only by a small amount.

 

[MDC]

Apologies for bumping up an old topic but I have to say well done to Virgin.

I wasn't expecting any form of compensation from Virgin, nor did I ask for anything but I received a phone call saying that as a valued customer they are going to credit me $199 because of the inconvenience caused.

I was one of the lucky ones that managed to fly that night / morning, just delayed about 6 hours.

In addition to the credit, I was also given 5000 points.

 

[straitman]

MDC,

Congratulations and well done to Virgin.