3 new A330 in 1H2012

[LiamR]

On a slight off topic note, wern't Virgin offered early slots for 737-900ERs not to long ago?

 

[lovestotravel]

NZ Has been putting premium configured aircraft of Pacific Island routes for a long time, it has proven to work for them fine. AKL-NAN gets a mix of 320/763/772/77W AKL-RAR gets a mix 320/763/772.

They are using aircraft at two different ends of the scale of these routes. You have the A320's with an LCC config of all Y (168), no bulk head for 1ABC. Although they have fitted the A320s with AVOD. On the other end you have the 772/77W with the full Long Haul hard product.
All 4 aircraft types are still providing the same level of on-board service, they are all leisure routes a Buy On Board Service.

The Pacific Blue fleet is totally outdated, more feels like flying in the 80s than the 90s. I flew them twice at the end of 2011 under the new Tasman Alliance, I was shocked by how bad the onboard product was. That product isn't fit for Tasman, let alone 5hour Island Flights.

True for NZ, but they don't have Jetstar pumping capacity on the route, but then at the same time the NZ market is tiny.....

Again, agree on the Pac Blue fleet, but we agreed on that, on another forum too

 

[cavemanzk]

True for NZ, but they don't have Jetstar pumping capacity on the route, but then at the same time the NZ market is tiny.....

Just quickly compared the capacity on the two routes.

AKL to Fiji (NAN & SUV)

NZ (2378 Seats Weekly)
AKL-NAN
1x 77W
1x 772
1X 763
9x 320

FJ (3122 Seats Weekly)
AKL-NAN
4x 744
5x 738
2x 73G
AKL-SUV
2x 73G


SYD-NAN

JQ (708 Seats Weekly)
4x A320

DJ (1770 Seats Weekly)
10x 738

FJ (2994Seats Weekly)
10x 738
3x 744

AKL-NAN/SUV 5500 Seats Per Week
SYD-NAN 5472 Seats Per Week

I'm for sure impressed by the size of the market ex-AKL

 

[smit0847]

So many comments in here I strongly agree with.

Anything over 3 hours in a 737 is uncomfortable - HKT to PER was one of the worst flights of my life. Would love to see 330s on some longer leisure routes (i.e would love to see a daily MEL-NAN service) but understand the business class may not be utilised (though along with many others I would happily use points upgrades). I would also love direct flights rather than almost always having to transit through Brisbane.

I think VA will be shooting itself in the foot if it chooses to reconfigure the 777s into a 3-4-3 in economy - that will really take them down a notch to the NZ and Etihad long-haul economy and they will lag behind Qantas, Emirates, Qatar economy etc.

I think flights to SIN from ADL would work. Im from ADL and know so many people who fly SQ or MH for the sole reason that they fly direct in and out of Adelaide meaning a 1-stop trip to the major cities of Europe and Asia - its very frustrating to have to do an awkward 3 hour flight to PER or go backwards to MEL or SYD at the very start of end of a trip.

I would love to explore the pacific islands but am very hesitant flying Pac Blue after my HKT-PER trip - it was extremely budget and that product is simply not designed for 6 hours flights. For Bali flights I think its ideal for all of the bogans (again, many people from adelaide fly pac blue to Bali because they are the only ones who do direct - if Tiger were the only ones to do it they would do the same). I think the type of people who want a slightly more exotic destination like Vanuatu, Samoa, Tonga etc want a slightly more sophisticated way of travelling (Air NZ) but do not want to have to go via AKL (Air NZ).

I've been praying for more international long-haul routes (see my previous posts in various threads!) but guessing its pretty low on the priority list for VA this year. Its very awkward having only 2 random long haul destinations!

 

[markis10]

Just quickly compared the capacity on the two routes.




SYD-NAN

JQ (708 Seats Weekly)
4x A320

DJ (1770 Seats Weekly)
10x 738

FJ (2994Seats Weekly)
10x 738
3x 744

AKL-NAN/SUV 5500 Seats Per Week
SYD-NAN 5472 Seats Per Week

I'm for sure impressed by the size of the market ex-AKL

I think DJ are happy with the status quo when it comes to NAN:

TABLE 2 SCHEDULED OPERATOR MARKET SHARES AND GROWTH: Years ended June
			Total Passengers				Total Freight (tonnes)
				(%)				(%)
Scheduled Operators	Country to/from	2010	2011	Change			2011	Change
Air Pacific	Fiji	395 199	411 001	4.0			8 854.6	28.1
Jetstar	Fiji	14 545	56 746	290.1		-	-	..
Pacific Blue	Fiji	195 916	249 391	27.3			188.3	-18.5
V Australia	Fiji	90 192	56 890	-36.9			463.2	-0.9

 

[mannej]

I think VA will be shooting itself in the foot if it chooses to reconfigure the 777s into a 3-4-3 in economy - that will really take them down a notch to the NZ and Etihad long-haul economy and they will lag behind Qantas, Emirates, Qatar economy etc.

Just a point of reference that EK fly 3-4-3 in their 777's

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Plenty of low handing fruit locally for the A330s to tackle, I see no sense in them being sent offshore!

Yes I can see AJs eyes watering with all of JBs low handing of his fruit :mrgreen:!

 

[day-heg]

On a slight off topic note, wern't Virgin offered early slots for 737-900ERs not to long ago?

Liam, I read/heard somewhere that the 739 product hasn't been massively well received for reasons that escape me, which means that the residual values for a 8-10 year old aircraft are weaker than an equivalent hours/cycles/fit out 738.

With DJ's policy of keeping fleet age down to reduce late-life maintenance costs, it means that despite the extra seats, and per-flight lower costs, the whole life business model probably doesn't work for them... whether they buy the aircraft outright, or lease them.

Probably would better for an airline that might buy them and "run them into the ground" - figuratively speaking! - a la QF.

 

[777]

Probably would better for an airline that might buy them and "run them into the ground" - figuratively speaking! - a la QF.

Or Lion Air... who fly/ drive them into the ground.

 

[dandandan]

Now this is another "problem" that Virgin has..........

777's - Premium aircraft for long-haul operations

A330's - I will call them "Superior" They are getting refitted to 777 specs ? I am not sure this is a good idea.... They should have a mid-range business class, no need (really) for a full lie-flat on MEL-PER run

737's - Budget aircraft for short-haul operations. Yep I still call them budget as their is no IFE provided, and that screams LCC.

Okay, back to my point, the A330's are either going to "premium" or "Superior" in terms of fit-out... Fiji & Raratonga doesn't need this type of fit out, so the plane would not be suited to the role. At the same time, anything more than 3 hours in a 737 is just frustrating. The Pacific Blue 737's feel like they are from the 90's and are not enjoyable!

At the moment Pacific Blue is a budget airline flying to Fiji etc etc... They are getting a "facelift" over the next few months, but I expect it to be the same as the Virgin Australia 737's which is a good start, but they need IFE...

So putting an A330 on a leisure route when it's configured for a premium route isn't going to work

How are the loads to Fiji and Raratonga these days ?

In regards to IFE, do you have a smartphone or tablet? there is a strategy for this which has been announced, which is starting soonish if I recall correctly, i think this is better than IFE units in the back of the seat in front of you.

 

[Ansettaddict123]

I read in the press yesterday that VA will get one NEW A330-200 each month, March, April then May! Earlier The Borg said in Flight International that the existing leased birds would then be pulled out a month each for the new Business Class seats, to match.

so the horrible Y seats are going to stay in -XFA/B?! :shock:

I thought that both C and Y were being stripped and replaced with a 'new product', supposedly featuring RED IIRC? (source escapes me)

On the subject of routes, I've always thought of PER-HKT as a good destination for VA A332s. The current pac blue 738 flight routinely achieves high loads, as does TGs A333 service.

 

[chrisjrn]

I thought that both C and Y were being stripped and replaced with a 'new product', supposedly featuring RED IIRC? (source escapes me).

AusBT says that the *new* A330s will have RED in them, presumably this will get retrofitted (source: Virgin Australia confirms inflight entertainment upgrade for new A330s - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller).

 

[Justchecking]

That article is pretty old, is this still the current news? Because all recent media releases have been detailing non-seatback IFE. Although I'm aware no specific A330 mentions with that one. I woud have thought given the popularity of RED, virgin would making more of any announcement to install it. It's hard to know whats current with DJ, since things seem to turn on a dime with them.

But in any case if this is true then are we to expect A330's to be 'internationally' configured and 737s to have a domestic product? I'm so confused....

 

[markis10]

But in any case if this is true then are we to expect A330's to be 'internationally' configured and 737s to have a domestic product? I'm so confused....

Why would you expect the A330s to be internationally configured just because of Red being installed, long term I would expect it to be in the 737s as well and likely to be a long rollout with a refit done as part of heavy maintenance. If DJ do put on more International aircraft it clearly will be 777s with the A330s left to fight the local long haul wars with the ex orange QF ones!

 

[antycbr]

Domestic - obvious opportunities include SYD/MEL/BNE-PER improving frequency on the big metal. However, how successful has Virgin been with the A330? SYD-PER is just always about on sale through Happy Hour.

Other options include SYD-MEL to improve capacity at peak times but turn times on a 330 were a problem for QF and congestion at terminals is also an issue.

Internationally, a lot of the obvious destinations within range of the A330 have been covered off via the NZ and in particular SQ partnerships. Could we see a BNE-HKG or MEL-HKG to provide feed to VS who already cover off SYD? Another option would be a low-J configuration for DPS/HKT but I don't think this was a priority for Virgin in their move into the business market unless they're going to take it up to GA and JQ.

 

[Justchecking]

Why would you expect the A330s to be internationally configured just because of Red being installed.....!

Because....

Red is part of their current international product and not their domestic product.
It will bring the A330's into closer alignment with their 777s in terms of product.
Both the 777s and the new A330's are having a new, unseen as yet product installed. Not inconceivable that the fitout on both may have similarities.
Virgin have already come out and said Red will not be on their 737s. Why would they invest in this wi-fi thing only to rip it out and install Red shortly down the track?
Its fairly logical to think that A330s may be used for short haul international as well as domestic at some point in the future.

 

[markis10]

Because....
Virgin have already come out and said Red will not be on their 737s. Why would they invest in this wi-fi thing only to rip it out and install Red shortly down the track?
Its fairly logical to think that A330s may be used for short haul international as well as domestic at some point in the future.

When have Virgin said Red will not be a feature of a future 737 IFE, I think you have read too much into things, all they have done is mentioned Phase 1, that phrase alone indicates there is more to follow! Its also not necessarily logical to use the A330s internationally when they are not part of the international AOC and already have close relationships with carriers that service the destinations its best suited to.

 

[lovestotravel]

In regards to IFE, do you have a smartphone or tablet? there is a strategy for this which has been announced, which is starting soonish if I recall correctly, i think this is better than IFE units in the back of the seat in front of you.

Yes, I did read that, but a poll on here indicated that 80%+ of people wanted seatback IFE and not fumbling around with a device/tray table and no charging option either!

Given that Virgin has new 737's rolling out the factory they should have come fitted with a full IFE and given they are rolling out WiFi I doubt they will ever go for seatback IFE, which is a shame

 

[The Rok]

I would imagine that if VA exercise their options on more 777's then the routes would most likely be PER or ADL to AUH. Direct feeder into EY's route network. This would also alleviate the necessity for EY to enter these ports.

 

[Justchecking]

If I am reading too much into things, I think that statement may apply you as well. 'Phase 1' does not equal - we will install Red at a later date. I've never read anything put out by the company to suggest that installing Red on a 737 at any stage is likely to happen. And the fact they are installing a completely different type of system tends to indicate to me that Red on a 737 is even less likely.

Its all armchair conjecture either way, only time will tell.