2025 Amex Membership Rewards Devaluation

[shuuy]

Huh? Where are you getting the 2:1 option from, or indeed, the notion of MR to Atmos in Australia? Alaska Airlines yoinked Hawaiian out of the Membership Rewards program internationally as Alaska has its own preferred banking partnership, and it's not with AMEX. There was the loophole for a while to convert from MR to Hawaiian and onto Alaska, but that's closed. Expecting Atmos to become available, or that it'd be 2:1 unlike the other international partners, is a bit of a daydream, unfortunately. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, of course, but...

?? HA and AS programs now combined into one

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

View attachment 474587?? HA and AS programs now combined into one

You've successfully found a website error. The website should have been updated and clearly has not been. They were only very briefly a partner and it ended 30 June.

Click on the logo and it will take you to an updated screen whereon Hawaiian has disappeared.

 

[StayGoldPonyboy]

From 20 October 2025 to 2 November 2025, earn 10,000 bonus KrisFlyer miles when you transfer over 200,000 Amex Membership Rewards points to KrisFlyer.

https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/au/plan-travel/promotions/kf-promotions/american-express--australia/

Haven't read the whole thread, hope this hasn't been posted already. My maths is atrocious, is this 15% ?

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

Haven't read the whole thread, hope this hasn't been posted already. My maths is atrocious, is this 15% ?

Yep. One would hope they'd transferred the bulk of their existing points to SQ before the devaluation if that's where they wanted them, but if not and/or for points earned since, an improvement on current rates. A bonus is always better than no bonus.

Whether this is better value than transferring elsewhere while still 2:1 a subjective decision, of course.

 

[andye]

Yep. One would hope they'd transferred the bulk of their existing points to SQ before the devaluation if that's where they wanted them, but if not and/or for points earned since, an improvement on current rates. A bonus is always better than no bonus.

Whether this is better value than transferring elsewhere while still 2:1 a subjective decision, of course.

I tend to wait for a Amex:VA bonus. You then have miles in a non-expiring account that you can use on SQ/VA/QR or transfer to SQ if there is different availability

 

[daft009]

I tend to wait for a Amex:VA bonus. You then have miles in a non-expiring account that you can use on SQ/VA/QR or transfer to SQ if there is different availability

From my quick calculation....

200,000 becomes 66,666 + bonus 10,000.
Same 200,000 Going to VFF during a 20% bonus and then to KF is ~77419 so slightly better off.

Also in this special offer, can't tell if you transfer 2x 200k MR then do you get 2x 10k KF bonus

 

[kash_0]

They just get worse and worse it seems

 

[Jstr]

They just get worse and worse it seems

Yep.

I have been an avid points collector/spender for the last 8 years. I have referred many of my friends and colleagues to Amex for the game. I have flown myself and partner on J to Europe yearly with it.

But this has caused me to pause all my referral activities. The issue isn't just the lowered value, it's the overall reduced earning ability - clearly one cannot increase one's spending by 50% just to offset the 33% reduction in total points earned.

Even though my annual expenditure isn't exactly small, this still feels like the end of the party. Clearly there is no way to justify recommending Amex to any average salaried middle class employee now.

 

[burneracc]

Clearly there is no way to justify recommending Amex to any average salaried middle class employee now.

Definitely not the platinum but the qf ult is still an all round great offering imho

 

[Bell21]

Yep.

I have been an avid points collector/spender for the last 8 years. I have referred many of my friends and colleagues to Amex for the game. I have flown myself and partner on J to Europe yearly with it.

But this has caused me to pause all my referral activities. The issue isn't just the lowered value, it's the overall reduced earning ability - clearly one cannot increase one's spending by 50% just to offset the 33% reduction in total points earned.

Even though my annual expenditure isn't exactly small, this still feels like the end of the party. Clearly there is no way to justify recommending Amex to any average salaried middle class employee now.

I don't know how I felt about this - on one sense, you're right re the annoying points devaluation, but then again, it's about adjusting to the changes and working out if it's still valuable earning points to use on these partner airlines - however, wrt to the AMEX specifically, I'm keeping it b/c of the value i get out of its perks, rather than points earnings per se (and it still gives me 1:1 for QFF/VFF) - so overall, yes, bloody annoying, but for me, not the end of the party, just a less opulent party for a while...

 

[Human]

Clearly there is no way to justify recommending Amex to any average salaried middle class employee now.

Well, speaking as an "average salaried middle class employee" (a schoolteacher), I beg to differ. Some random thoughts:

• Flying with points (especially internationally in premium cabins) has always been a niche, long-game activity. I've been doing it for some years now and just about every year throws up at least one curve-ball which leaves people lamenting that they're out of the game now. And yet, here we (still) are.
• If people want to leave the game now because it's all too hard or no longer worthwhile, that means that, in theory at least, there will be more seats available to those of us who are left. Happy with that.
• Related to the above, if it now takes me 18 months instead of 12 months to earn enough points for my wife and me to fly long-haul and back in a premium cabin, that's something I can live with. Flying is a privilege, not a right. And flying once every 18 months is better than not flying at all.
• Playing this game has always required agility and flexibility. In that regard, nothing has changed..
• I find it a little more difficult to accumulate enough points, and to find availability, today than, say, pre-COVID. But it's not significantly more difficult. I say this as someone who's flying overseas on points more than ever.

So if you want to stop recommending the AmEx to your salaried middle class friends, that's unfortunate for your friends, but the reality is that to people like me who are still in the game, less competition for scarce reward seats is not exactly something I'm disappointed about.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

Definitely not the platinum but the qf ult is still an all round great offering imho

For now. Did an AMEX market research survey this week and they were workshopping different ideas around the Qantas product line, including an annual fee on what would currently be the Discovery card (circa $95 and general earn around 0.5 per $1, or slightly increased on the first $15k of annual spend). For the Ultimate, they were workshopping an annual fee still of $450 but a travel benefit of a $250 voucher given only after spending $500 with Qantas. If they go ahead, you read it here first!

 

[Waddygib]

For now. Did an AMEX market research survey this week and they were workshopping different ideas around the Qantas product line, including an annual fee on what would currently be the Discovery card (circa $95 and general earn around 0.5 per $1, or slightly increased on the first $15k of annual spend). For the Ultimate, they were workshopping an annual fee still of $450 but a travel benefit of a $250 voucher given only after spending $500 with Qantas. If they go ahead, you read it here first!

Suspect they are prepping for a chance to go exclusive with them under certain RBA reform scenarios. That will not be a good outcome for anyone but Amex.

 

[Happy Dude]

...it now takes me 18 months instead of 12 months to earn enough points for my wife and me to fly long-haul and back in a premium cabin...

Not just on Amex spend it doesn't, and not on your income (unless you're spending well beyond your means). You're getting way more points outside of Amex to accumulate approx 400-500k FFP (around 1m Amex points and counting!) to travel J for 2 pax in 18 months.

Not saying it's not do-able as it clearly is but as @Jstr implies, earning enough points for J travel by Amex points for the non-business owner is a long hard slog and only part of the equation anyway.

 

[levelnine]

Not just on Amex spend it doesn't, and not on your income (unless you're spending well beyond your means). You're getting way more points outside of Amex to accumulate approx 400-500k FFP (around 1m Amex points and counting!) to travel J for 2 pax in 18 months.

Indeed. Even if you were spending $10K/m on your Amex ($120K pa), you'd need to spend for 3 years to afford 2x J return tickets Australia to Japan, and that's not even long haul imo.

Edit: changed the calculated assumptions to earning 2.25 ppd on the Plat.

 

[Human]

Even if you were spending $10K/m on your Amex ($120K pa), you'd need to spend for 6.5 years to afford 2x J return tickets Australia to Japan. 8.6 years if you want to go to the west coast of the US.

Not just on Amex spend it doesn't, and not on your income (unless you're spending well beyond your means). You're getting way more points outside of Amex to accumulate approx 400-500k FFP (around 1m Amex points and counting!) to travel J for 2 pax in 18 months.

Of course. AmEx is just one part of the strategy which includes FlyBuys and Everyday Rewards, credit card sign-up bonuses (Mastercard and Visa) and churning, electricity and gas sign-up bonuses, AmEx referrals, etc etc.

It's all part of playing the game and, as I wrote, flexibility and agility is required.

But AmEx is nevertheless an essential part of the strategy, particularly for accumulating points (eg. Avios) which you can't come by easily via other means.

Typically, an overseas trip for us would involve going one way on Singapore Airlines (either booked directly via Velocity or with KrisFlyer points converted from Velocity), and the other way on Qatar (where a business class flight is only 90,000 Avios per person).

 

[Jstr]

Flying is a privilege, not a right.

No need to hyperbolise this as privilege. For the average person living in Australia in 2025, especially those here on this AFF forum, flying frequently is simply a necessity, whether for work or leisure.

And flying once every 18 months is better than not flying at all.

Sure. Equally, flying J (for cheap) once every 18 months is worse than flying J (for cheap) every 12 months.

Not just on Amex spend it doesn't, and not on your income (unless you're spending well beyond your means). You're getting way more points outside of Amex to accumulate approx 400-500k FFP (around 1m Amex points and counting!) to travel J for 2 pax in 18 months.

Not saying it's not do-able as it clearly is but as @Jstr implies, earning enough points for J travel by Amex points for the non-business owner is a long hard slog and only part of the equation anyway.

Exactly.

Business owner or not, we are all enthusiasts here on this forum. So we are all a bit different to the "average person" when it comes to points.

Most of my "average middle class salaried" friends love the idea of free J class flights, but once you explain how it's done and how long it would take, they ultimately don't have the inclination to actually track down deals to accumulate bonus points from the various sources. They just can't be bothered. So mass earn on straight up spending is always the easiest calculation to present when it comes to referrals. 7 years ago, when it was 2 airline points earned for every $1 spent, even the average spender had the possibility of getting at least 1 leg in business/premium economy yearly, if they focused. That was the golden era of the points game. Does anyone remember the doubling of points Amex offered to all plats when they devalued back then? What a time that was.... I still carry KF balance as a result of that era which has served me very well even in 2025.

Similarly, most of my business owner friends with earnings and expenditure much higher than mine, on the other hand, look at me and think: "Really? All this just to get some free business class flights"? They don't really have the energy for all this either. Especially when you explain the time costs, the effort to track down and execute bonus deals, the hugely significant booking in advance constraints, and other factors like destination and tax, etc., the 33% reduction in mass points earn is certainly a reason to be less enthused overall for the average person, high or low expenditure regardless. And for some, it's also time to close some Amex cards. I will most likely keep my double Plats still, but next time I ring to cancel the Explorer, it would likely be for real.

 

[Bell21]

No need to hyperbolise this as privilege. For the average person living in Australia in 2025, especially those here on this AFF forum, flying frequently is simply a necessity, whether for work or leisure.


Sure. Equally, flying J (for cheap) once every 18 months is worse than flying J (for cheap) every 12 months.


Exactly.

Business owner or not, we are all enthusiasts here on this forum. So we are all a bit different to the "average person" when it comes to points.

Most of my "average middle class salaried" friends love the idea of free J class flights, but once you explain how it's done and how long it would take, they ultimately don't have the inclination to actually track down deals to accumulate bonus points from the various sources. They just can't be bothered. So mass earn on straight up spending is always the easiest calculation to present when it comes to referrals. 7 years ago, when it was 2 airline points earned for every $1 spent, even the average spender had the possibility of getting at least 1 leg in business/premium economy yearly, if they focused. That was the golden era of the points game. Does anyone remember the doubling of points Amex offered to all plats when they devalued back then? What a time that was.... I still carry KF balance as a result of that era which has served me very well even in 2025.

Similarly, most of my business owner friends with earnings and expenditure much higher than mine, on the other hand, look at me and think: "Really? All this just to get some free business class flights"? They don't really have the energy for all this either. Especially when you explain the time costs, the effort to track down and execute bonus deals, the hugely significant booking in advance constraints, and other factors like destination and tax, etc., the 33% reduction in mass points earn is certainly a reason to be less enthused overall for the average person, high or low expenditure regardless. And for some, it's also time to close some Amex cards. I will most likely keep my double Plats still, but next time I ring to cancel the Explorer, it would likely be for real.

I get it - the devaluation is definitely a pain in the proverbial - and yep, the double of points for AMEX Plat made me VERY happy - but that's also a reason to remember that having the Plat is not just about the points earn, at least for some --- there are tangible and unpected perks of having the card (but then, AMEX should probably put me on commission for saying that --- I am interested, however, to see what M'card and Visa do re points earn giving the upcoming changes to surcharges etc --- last time, AMEX waited a while to react - this time, they've 'gone early'

 

[MathNerd]

an "average salaried middle class employee" (a schoolteacher),

Hey! Another one of us! Are you primary or secondary? Government or Private?

I'm another school teacher that is neck deep in the points game (though these days, a large portion of my points come from purchasing points, specifically Velocity on a 40% sale, as my points earn from regular spend is just way too slow to accumulate enough points for my wife and I to fly long haul in J).

The one advantage that you and I have (which is probably the only real advantage, given the state of the "industry") is the advance planning capabilities that we have (we know our term breaks far in advance). This has helped me book some extremely aspirational awards (all in SQ J, most recently on the longest flight in the world SQ24 SIN-JFK). Sadly, there may come a time when schools and their students are in such disarray that I will have to give it up for something less stressful, but then that comes with not knowing holiday dates in advance... I hope you're not there yet. I've gotten very used to going to the first day of any of the future term breaks, subtracting 355 days from it and then pnning that date in my memory as the "big day" to perform a booking!

I've been in the points game for just going on 10 years now, rules have changed, transfar rates slashed, but as you've said, you have to adapt and roll with the punches. It now takes a lot longer to build the points balances up, but as long as you know what you're doing and devote enough brain power to the task, flying in J is always doable, with the right amount of effort. Nobody is getting a free ride (well, apart from my colleagues whom I generously help redeem their points for J flights).

Good luck for the rest of Term 4!

 

[Human]

Hey! Another one of us! Are you primary or secondary? Government or Private?

I'm another school teacher that is neck deep in the points game (though these days, a large portion of my points come from purchasing points, specifically Velocity on a 40% sale, as my points earn from regular spend is just way too slow to accumulate enough points for my wife and I to fly long haul in J).

The one advantage that you and I have (which is probably the only real advantage, given the state of the "industry") is the advance planning capabilities that we have (we know our term breaks far in advance). This has helped me book some extremely aspirational awards (all in SQ J, most recently on the longest flight in the world SQ24 SIN-JFK). Sadly, there may come a time when schools and their students are in such disarray that I will have to give it up for something less stressful, but then that comes with not knowing holiday dates in advance... I hope you're not there yet. I've gotten very used to going to the first day of any of the future term breaks, subtracting 355 days from it and then pnning that date in my memory as the "big day" to perform a booking!

I've been in the points game for just going on 10 years now, rules have changed, transfar rates slashed, but as you've said, you have to adapt and roll with the punches. It now takes a lot longer to build the points balances up, but as long as you know what you're doing and devote enough brain power to the task, flying in J is always doable, with the right amount of effort. Nobody is getting a free ride (well, apart from my colleagues whom I generously help redeem their points for J flights).

Good luck for the rest of Term 4!

And I thought I was the only teacher on AFF in a sea of high-flying corporate types whose employers pay for their flights, and retired people using their superannuation!

(not that there's anything wrong with that, of course....! )

I'm a secondary teacher at a private school.

I totally agree with everything you said about the advantages we have and how doable this all is for us. We're not highly paid, but being able to plan ahead is a game-changer which makes this possible. I've also reached the point where I have access to long service leave, which is incredibly helpful -- I can plan my trips to co-incide with school holidays, but if reward flights are only available a day or two before they start, or a day or two after they finish, that's no big deal as I just take those few days as LSL.

I must admit that I have only just begun to dip my toe in the water of purchasing points. I purchased several thousand Avios during a sale a year or so ago ... haven't needed to purchase points since, but I'm well and truly open to it if the circumstances and the price are right.

I absolutely know about and experience the "disarray" that you write about. It's being able to travel (and look forward to travelling during the school holidays) that keeps me sane!