SQ Pilot 'refused sick passenger's plea to land'

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Pilot 'refused sick passenger's plea to land'

Pilot 'refused sick passenger's plea to land'


An award-winning BBC journalist who suffered a heart attack on board a Singapore Airlines flight may sue the airline after it refused to make an emergency landing.

Going to be hard for SQ to come out in front from this, which raises a good question, how many of us would: -
  1. Request a change to the flight route for a serious medical problem...AND what opinions you would have of the airline if they rejected your request
  2. Would we accept the crew's decision if a flight route was changed at the request of another pax due to medical issues...?

Good Karma or Bad Karma...?

Edit: Also this guy was just not sick as the headlines state, part of his heart was actually dying... So very lucky not to result a death on the flight... So I guess it is cheaper to have someone die on a flight than the cost to divert.... Life's cheap hey... :)
 
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I agree, but I would also have assumed that the pilot's decision was made on some sort of medical advice.

I agree also. I glad I wasn't the Good Samaritan medic on that flight. The original Daily Mail article states the victim was forced to endure the 14hr flight whilst suffering a cardiac arrest :shock: and of course entire bullcr@p as he would have died en-route!!
Unfortunately the symptoms of a heart attack mimic a thousand other conditions, if aircraft landed every time an overweight, middle -aged passenger suffered chest pain it would be a very common occurrence indeed. The art is in discrimination.
 
I wonder if there was a communications issue at hand, with no onboard doctors SQ would have relied on their ops to make the call. Hindsight is 20 20 vision, and I would imagine making a call remotely on what to do would be a hard thing made harder if symptoms are not accurately described. How many times have observers only reported want they thought they saw, not what happened as they got caught up in the moment?
 
I wonder if there was a communications issue at hand, with no onboard doctors SQ would have relied on their ops to make the call. Hindsight is 20 20 vision, and I would imagine making a call remotely on what to do would be a hard thing made harder if symptoms are not accurately described. How many times have observers only reported want they thought they saw, not what happened as they got caught up in the moment?

The article states he was attended to by a passenger who was a doctor, mind you it's no-news so not sure how reliable that is :rolleyes:
 
The article states he was attended to by a passenger who was a doctor, mind you it's no-news so not sure how reliable that is :rolleyes:

I wonder what the recommendation was, and how it was phrased, regardless is would have probably been the longest flight of his life!
 
The article states he was attended to by a passenger who was a doctor, mind you it's no-news so not sure how reliable that is :rolleyes:

..and I side-stepped the issue of where that medical advice may have come from! Regardless of the doctor on board, I understand the crew still have access to medical advice from the ground.
 
I have been reading up around the net on this incident. A lot of the comments focus on how they were close to SIN, so they should have just turned around and landed, as they could just offload the passenger and turn around and go, i.e no delay.

I would think SIN-LHR would need a fair bit of fuel, so how long would it have taken for the A380 to get back down to a safe landing weight? Is it enough of an emergency to land overweight for something like this?

With these points in mind, it would not have been a simple turn back to SIN no major delay type of incident.

Either way it does seem extreme that there was no diversion though. However it is not the only case that has been in the media lately with the death of a women during/just after an Emirates flight
 
I have been reading up around the net on this incident. A lot of the comments focus on how they were close to SIN, so they should have just turned around and landed, as they could just offload the passenger and turn around and go, i.e no delay.
It may not be quite so easy to "just turn around and land..". If heading SIN-LHR, they would have been heavy with fuel and almost certainly would have been above max landing weight. That means they would need to dump fuel, which take time, or make an over-weight landing, which has risks and will likely result in the aircraft requiring engineering inspections before being used again.

So if you take into account the time to dump fuel and then land, its likely the crew will now have consumed enough hours that they cannot make the restarted journey to London, requiring a new technical crew (and possibly cabin crew) to be located and readied for the new flight.

The article quote it as being a 14-hour flight. Even if the medical condition was identified immediately after take-off, expect its going to take well more than an hour to dump fuel and get back on the ground in SIN. Then they need to taxi to a gate and off-load the sick passenger. This is not going to happen in less than 2 hours and more likely would result in at least a 3 hour delay, which is going to require a fresh crew to commence a planned 14 hour service.

I am in no way suggesting they should not have taken this course of action, but its not a simple task to turning back, off-loading the sick passenger and heading off again. Its a lot more complicated than that.

Without knowing what message the captain received from the attending passenger/doctor, its impossible to pass judgment on the actions taken.
 
Without knowing what message the captain received from the attending passenger/doctor, its impossible to pass judgment on the actions taken.

Indeed. Also, I wouldn't put too much stock in any article published in the Daily Heil and regurgitatied by news.com. That's not a... Reliable... Source of news.
 
He was travelling NRT/SIN/LHR on SQ & the incident happened just after takeoff from SIN where he was a transit pax.

I'm curious as to whether he might have not been feeling well on his previous flight in which case it would have been smarter to say something in SIN to the airline could offload his bag & he could get to a hospital.

Purely speculative I know however NRT/SIN is around 6-7 hours so it makes you wonder whether he ignored warning signs.
 
He was travelling NRT/SIN/LHR on SQ & the incident happened just after takeoff from SIN where he was a transit pax.

That's an awfully long way to go to get from NRT-LHR. (NRT being closer to LHR than SIN!)
 
I doubt there's any equipment on a plane that can diagnose a heart attack anyway ... assume there's no ECG or way to check troponin :D So it'd be a hard case - even with all the "classic" symptoms, it's still far more likely to be any number of other things (reflux, anxiety, any lung thing etc).
 
Purely speculative I know however NRT/SIN is around 6-7 hours so it makes you wonder whether he ignored warning signs.

I’m sure that would be raised if it ever got that far.

Certainly, if I was in that situation I’d want them to land, but I’d also probably take the word of the attending doctor over my word, because after all, I’d expect a doctor to know more about what’s happening than me. If there was no doctor, different story again, but if the airline didn’t cause the heart attack, I don’t see how they’re that responsible, he clearly couldn’t have seemed that sick if they didn’t divert.

I doubt there's any equipment on a plane that can diagnose a heart attack anyway ... assume there's no ECG or way to check troponin :D So it'd be a hard case - even with all the "classic" symptoms, it's still far more likely to be any number of other things (reflux, anxiety, any lung thing etc).

Do they usually have those portable defibrillators on planes… if it got to the stage where his heart stopped? Though I’d imagine at that stage a diversion would be more likely to be considered.
 
That's an awfully long way to go to get from NRT-LHR. (NRT being closer to LHR than SIN!)

Exactly, can't help wondering if his work was actual paying for the ticket they'd book him on BA....unless of course all the flights were chockers after the earthquake.

IMHO you'd need a pretty good incentive to fly NRT/SIN/LHR, like maybe if the ticket was free, ahem I mean if the journalist was a 'guest' of the airline.

Nothing wrong with a bit of speculation - after all what do the media do whenever there's some sort of aviation incident! Only difference they confuse speculation with facts.

Trial by AFF - love it! :cool:

he needed the miles ;)

Wouldn't get any if he was on a freebie. :p
 
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It may not be quite so easy to "just turn around and land..".

<and so on>

I agree - although for a 14 hour flight to LHR, it's rather odd that they didn't decide to divert. How far would that 388 have to go under normal flight course before it had burnt enough fuel to land safely (assume it does not dump fuel). I mean, we've heard of a QF flight LHR-SIN diverting to DXB for a medical emergency (or was it somewhere else along the way and then divert to DXB due to fuel and crew).

The article is sketchy on many fronts (apart from a slew of grammatical errors). For example, they say that "it appeared [the affected] was attended to by a passenger who was a doctor". Well, thank goodness they had a doctor on board, but it only appeared to be the case?

Next, the article seemed to imply that the affected pax requested the diversion in order to seek medical attention. If he was suffering a drastic heart attack, I'm sure the crew would find some way of getting him to the ground as quickly as possible rather than fly all the way to LHR, without his being able to physically blurt out, "Get me to a hospital! Divert!" If he was able to say such a thing then perhaps the condition was not as serious. Still, it is amazing that he survived the entire flight, although SQ's defence is not that "[he] survived, so what's the problem".

Of course, both statements said above were provided by the BBC. That's only one side.

I would assume also that all FAs (or a sizable portion of the crew) are First Aid trained and, along with the doctor, should've been able to stabilise the affected pax and then make a learned judgement whether a diversion was necessary. Now there's a lot embodied in that last statement, so it only takes one thing wrong in any of that to break the chain and thus things go wrong. Can someone of medical competence (perhaps in cardiovascular) comment on whether a diversion would have prevented "long term heart damage" as quoted in the article. Not that the article may be incorrect (i.e. there is no long term damage), but rather what would've been the difference between seeking a diversion and attention vs. the 14 hour flight?

In fact, the way I read it, had the affected pax's condition been as serious as described, I would not have expected him to survive the 14 hour flight. In which case had he died then I would strongly support a case of negligence to be brought against SQ.


On a more personal note, I am flying SIN-FRA in 2 weeks time in F on a SQ 744. Whilst I have no previous cardiovascular medical history (except a line starting from my mum of diabetes, which I don't have as yet), I'm hoping that I don't have a heart attack, especially closely after take-off from SIN! (Well, not just because SQ may expect me to survive until we reach FRA, but it isn't good for the ticker anyway....)
 
I agree - although for a 14 hour flight to LHR, it's rather odd that they didn't decide to divert.



Can someone of medical competence (perhaps in cardiovascular) comment on whether a diversion would have prevented "long term heart damage" as quoted in the article. Not that the article may be incorrect (i.e. there is no long term damage), but rather what would've been the difference between seeking a diversion and attention vs. the 14 hour flight?

The simple answer is yes, time is myocardium
 
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